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Comment by titanomachy | Hacker News Reader

I stopped being able to get work done at all. It gradually tipped me into a low-self-esteem death spiral. I tried lots of different approaches to fix it: more accountability with my manager, new medication, more regular exercise, therapy, a bit of disability leave, even moved to a bigger apartment where I could have my own office. Nothing got me past the block.

I quit my job, spent six weeks studying and interviewing aggressively, and got hired for a higher-level position at a different company. I pushed back my start date enough that I'll onboard in an office instead of remotely. In the meantime I'm working on my health and personal projects, and spending lots of time with friends and in nature.

I gave up trying to work remotely this time around, but I'm still hopeful that at some point I'll improve my coping skills enough that it will be an option.

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I'm in the same boat right now. Since my company insists on using an "air-gapped" development network (it basically means no internet connection, but that didn't stop the Chinese from copying our code and designs but I digress) we have to go through two different VPNs, which means remote desktop lag. Usually I don't mind for a few days, but after more than one year I just can't stand it, especially when we're we're forced to used an early 2019 version of Visual Studio, so it's reallyyy slow. I just can't stand it anymore. Sometimes I'm allowed to come back at work and it's day and night in terms of productivity.

I'm getting contacted by headhunters left and right every months but I'm still reticent to leave because we're short on staff and the project I'm working on is really important for the company and I've was kinda hired to bring those things into reality as the other devs are mostly technical experts in their fields than actual developers and in addition the code is ugly.

So yeah. Sucks.

Company loyalty is an outdated concept. You are the CEO of yourself so that should be your first priority.

Get out.

All your reasons for staying have to do with the company; not you. Unless -you- want to see it to completion, that is not a good reason. You do not owe the company anything.

> I'm getting contacted by headhunters left and right every months but I'm still reticent to leave because we're short on staff and the project I'm working on is really important for the company and I've was kinda hired to bring those things into reality as the other devs are mostly technical experts in their fields than actual developers and in addition the code is ugly.

Red alert. You basically just wrote “I should quit tomorrow”.

Wait, is there an ethical reason you think the project should be completed? Like, it's really going to help starving orphans or something?

Because otherwise you should quit yesterday, like the others say. You don't owe them nuthin'.

> Wait, is there an ethical reason you think the project should be completed?

I had a higher salary than demanded because they needed me to complete the task. Sure I could quit, it's just I'd feel bad about myself.

>ike, it's really going to help starving orphans or something? Because otherwise you should quit yesterday, like the others say. You don't owe them nuthin'.

Can't deny the logic of that.

Everyone is saying you should quit, which might be a reasonable suggestion, but it sounds like your issue is with working remotely. It sounds like you are able to be very productive and get satisfaction from your work when you can come into the office. If you don't want to quit, you could alternatively demand that they let you work from the office or relax development security. If they realize that saying "no" means jeopardizing the project, you might have some leverage.

Strange tip, I use to do part time local delivery. It made my brain cool off (safe regular activity, simple money, low skills). In between deliveries I often wrote small bits or small feature branches. I found it a good balance. It also made me think differently because I'd favor changes that were high ROI. No large design, no syntactic change. Only solid and valuable additions. Something I never really felt before.

Interesting. I have thought about working at a grocery store or something just to feel useful and connected, but my immigration status doesn't allow it. And honestly even though it would probably be good for me, it's hard to consider working for 1/10th of my usual wage.

Heh, same problem as ADHD developer. The one thing that was helping me was a custom in our company that we sit on zoom as much as possible. But, to be honest, I just got back to office as soon as it was possible in my country.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you find programming on meds? I can't do it.

Not OP, but I have ADHD and would love to chime in here. I love programming on meds and I hate programming on meds. Meds connect the dots, but meds also over-engineer everything. Then the meds wear off and I am stuck with a huge solution and I have no idea what I just did.

As a person without ADHD that sounds weirdly similar to my experience of studying or coding on amphetamines (from brief experiments in college that I quickly decided were not worth it). Is there actually any difference between ADHD meds and speed?

Depends on the meds, but Adderall is a combination of different amphetamines and dextroamphetamines. Some of which are added just to make it uncomfortable if you take too much.

The greatly simplified idea is that people with adhd have trouble using parts of their brain at the time they need to. So by increasing all brain activity the parts that are normally diminished are about normal. The side effect is that all the rest of the parts are amped up.

This isn't quite right. Adderall is a 3:1 mixture of dextroamphetamine and levoamphetamine. These are different enantiomers (configurations) of the amphetamine molecule. The two molecules have subtly different effects in the body, but as far as I know, neither is added to "make it uncomfortable if you take too much".

Fair enough. A doctor basically explained it to me like that over a decade ago, and I took their word for it. Which is uncharacteristic of me to just take someone's word for something, and repeat it.

I had a coworker with ADHD and I'm pretty sure he was prescribed stimulants although he was discreet about it. His patterns of focus were idiosyncratic, and occasionally he wrote code that just oozed "hopped up on addy" stylistically — particularly spurious and superfluous abstractions.

It's ok, although I have a tendency to wear myself out mentally when I take stimulant meds.

Certain kinds of programming have a very high activation energy. In each programming session, it can take a lot of time (sometimes hours) before I've gathered enough context to start making progress on a problem. Once I start making progress my motivation is usually self-sustaining. Sometimes I can't focus long enough to get to that point, and in that case the stimulants do help.

However, I also become very reluctant to take breaks and lose the context I've built up, so I often end up working quite late. I feel exhausted and sort of disoriented sometimes after these sessions. I can't do days like that too often without sacrificing health, relationships, etc.

In 2020, meds didn't help me at all. I just ended up being really focused on some useless distraction or cleaning my house or whatever. My problem was more fundamental than "I can't focus long enough to build up self-sustaining momentum."

What don't you like about programming on meds?

Just wanna say I relate strongly to these posts. Sometimes it just feels like i'm trying everything to manage my motivation and adhd and it just doesn't work and I just gotta breath get outside and be unproductive for awhile.

I hear you.

If you otherwise like your job and the people you work with, then I think it's good to just accept that some days you won't get work done and that's ok.

If you feel that way all the time, maybe it's time to find work that you care about more.

I've been a programmer for 20 years and you just described my daily struggle with my job so precisely. Is this kind of experience happening to neuro-typical people or is this a very ADHD thing?

I ask because I have often wondered if I am undiagnosed as something or other and this post hit me hard.

It is common with tasks requiring deep focus also in people without ADHD.

I think for neurotypical people it is easier to create some kind of system/framework for being more efficient in work. Every solved problem add some mental tools to this systems. But it is much harder for ADHD because of how our brain works. Working step-by-step is hard for me. It is easier for me to load as much info to my brain RAM and try to digest it. And it is not something that you can get better in because it's not really a systematic method.

I've seen coworkers that I'd describe as neuro-typical work in a similar way sometimes. But the tendency to alternate between periods of difficulty focusing and periods of hyperfocus is a recognized trait of ADHD. If you're interested in learning more I'd recommend Hallowell's book, the one I read was "Delivered from Distraction" but he might have a newer one. Just read the first couple chapters and if it resonates a lot then it might be worth getting tested.

Thanks, I resemble all those statements, and I've often wondered if I'm undiagnosed ADHD. My occasional brushes with modafinil... well, sometimes it works, and sometimes it turns me into the best damn house cleaner on the planet.

In my brief experience of SSRI drugs, they left me fuzzy and unable to concentrate. Like baby brain without the baby.

I sometimes take modafinil before starting a day of work.

So far there hasn't been a single instance where I did that and didn't get sidetracked thinking up a new software project I could start using technologies I barely understand to solve a problem I just learned about.

The upside is you're a lot more focused, so you can get a lot done. The downside is it's really easy to nerd-snipe yourself, and the increased focus means it's hard to stop thinking about whatever problem caught your attention.

I found meds to have enhancing effects on my code. Everything I have earned is because of it.

My best guess is you are still in the phase of titration and finding the correct type of medication that works for you.

Having an empathetic doctor who is willing to work with you can make that road smoother. She printed out papers from pubmed to help me better understand what I'll be taking and what to expect. It felt very nice to actually be taken seriously.

I do notice that the other experiences may not truly reflect the efficacy of medication. The actual symptoms are still not well defined, not all doctors are equal, being misdiagnosed, etc.

Hard truth? It's still guess and check. There are so many comorbid conditons associated with ADHD - most of the time it is just the symptom of an underlying cause. ADHD meds only work on people with ADHD :)

How long were you able to push your start date from when you accepted the offer?

Weeks? Months?

Months. Certain very large companies hire engineers into a general pool rather than to a specific team, so once you've passed the interviews they don't mind too much if you put off actually starting work.

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