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Comment by FinanceAnon | Hacker News Reader

Very superficial advice. I don't see how small-talk with strangers can fix loneliness long term.

I totally hear you, although for me having a positive human interaction, even if it's just saying hey to the barista, or sharing an idle observation with a stranger while sitting in a park or at a beach somewhere, always brightens my day. It sounds so damn cliche, I know, but it's undeniable.

A bit of small talk with (for instance) the mail man or the cashier every once in a while, adds up to a sort of superficial relationship over time. I would be loathe to say to say that this offers a "fix" for loneliness, but I also wouldn't trivialise the value of these types of relationships.

Being alone and far away from other people turns us somewhat savage. That's why these superficial interactions help, they are akin to walking around as a minimum type of movement one should do before it becomes a serious problem that requires a lot more effort to get out of.

And I just want to add, "superficial" does not mean bad. Weak connections (https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200701-why-your-weak-...) with people you see around can be powerful in combating loneliness.

yeah it's just a rehash of the standard advice you always see in these kinds of articles/threads.

> Simply put, be casual, not creepy, and read the room.

this line gave me a chuckle at least. pretty sure this is the actual root of the problem for many lonely people.

here's my guide to making friends:

1. have good social skills.

2. talk to people.

Well, your facetious advice is correct. Just switch the order. Talk to people -> build social skills -> talk to everyone -> find yourself in new friendships and relationships.

Just consider the fact that if you’re lonely, doing more of the same isn’t going to help you. It’s easy to be dismissive, but you’re going to have to push your comfort zone to find change.

The trouble I have is that you have to start with a certain selfishness of wanting to improve your social skills even if it makes other people's days worse.

Like I'm not the most charismatic guy, and I know that if I try to make any sort of non-trivial conversation with someone I don't know well I will make them uncomfortable. Men will be bored or think I'm crazy, women will think I'm hitting on them, and I don't really feel comfortable using them as guinea pigs for my social development.

I'm all for pushing past my personal comfort zone to better myself, but when my self-improvement comes at the expense of others I can't help but hesitate.

I agree with this. I'd have periods of times where I'd feel super lonely and I'd go out and meet new people through group events introduced by friends or whatever. However usually it ends up feeling like a waste of time. It sounds super elitist but I'm rarely impressed by new people I meet and usually the ones I meet seem so different I'm not even sure I really even want to know them better. It seems super contradictory and sometimes I'd go home feeling worse

That's how virtually every friendship starts, isn't it?

I think loneliness is something that goes deeper than how many friends you have. You can be surrounded with people and still feel lonely.

I think that's depression. I'm guessing these tips are more for the technically lonely, which is probably a much higher number in the past due to WFH and quarantines.

It's also having shallow friendships

That's not true at all. Also, historically, there's been a trend of attributing negative things to depression. I've read John Cacioppo's work (here's an interview: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/how-lonel...), and as far as I know it's both scientifically well-founded and at least somewhat actionable.

I would agree about attributing too much to depression. I'm not saying depression isn't real, but there's a motivator to attribute things to it because it creates more customers for pills that will allegedly fix it.

As someone who has depression (via bipolar), this over-attribution is real and it hurts those who actually need help. Medication is literally a life-saver for me but no one should be taking it if they don't need it.

Ah well I agree with the second sentence, but having friends is different from just being around other people.

And I guess if you really have friends and still feel lonely, making more friends might not help much.

Never. Friendship comes from spending regular unstructured time with other people. It’s very hard to make real friends on purpose.

That just isn’t true. Meeting a stranger, realizing you enjoy their company, trading contact info, deciding to spend “structured?” time together. This is most of my friendships and all of my relationships after university.

Only the first meeting has to be incidental. Expecting all future contact to be incidental is how you let all could-be friendships and relationships pass right through your fingers.

Take a little control over life.

A sure way to become the "random guy at the store who thinks we're friends". No friendships start like that.

I met a very good friend of mine in line at a restaurant. I'd argue it all comes down to your mindset - I'm not even that extraverted. At least in the midwest this is incredibly doable and common.

I feel that getting into the habit of small-talk can long-term reduce loneliness (not fix it necessarily) because the human brain is wired to feel some benefit when interacting with other humans or even being in the presence of other humans. That's why, eg. even though writing is a fairly solitary action, writers are often stereotyped as constantly being in ambiently social places like bars and coffee shops. You may genuinely feel less lonely when you're ambiently in the environment of other humans for whatever reason.

This is why I exercise at the gym instead of at home. I don't really know anyone at the gym (nor do I really make an effort to), but I recognize faces and get some motivation from being in a place with others who are all there for the same purpose. Just riding a stationary bike or lifting weights at home by myself is not a habit I have ever been able to develop.

Anecdotally, people in solitary confinement become desperate for even the most mundane of social interactions. This implies there is some psychological need for them.

It took me a long time to understand that a lot of people use small talk to filter out crazy people. You have to pass the small talk test to be allowed to have meaningful conversations.

It's socializing you to open up to other people and take some chances.

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