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Comment by Wowfunhappy | Hacker News Reader

> but I really doubt that "the gays will ogle me" is the kind of culture-forming collective epiphany that would bend this practice.

So why would people care if there were women there? Is it different?

I’ll go a step further and say I think the entire concept of a single-sex changing room may be outdated.

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Frankly, my main concern would be that women would see me as "predatory", for lack of a better term. Put a different way, I would be uncomfortable with the idea that I would make them uncomfortable in some way. I guess in some way, not assuming someone's sexual preference (that is, adhering to what is statistically very probable) allows everyone in the situation to save face in accordance with politeness theory [0]. Maybe this isn't entirely logical, but it doesn't seem too far off to me.

This is one example of a situation that would explain the incongruence; I'm sure there are others from different perspectives.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politeness_theory

I'm not sure it is entirely logical, but certainly somewhat logical in the context of nudity being something forbidden.

>Frankly, my main concern would be that women would see me as "predatory", for lack of a better term.

That was outdated too during the sexual revolution (when people would get naked far more casually, including at concerts and nature, and few would bat an eye), but somehow came back to fashion as the boomer generation grow older...

And I'll go another step farther--I don't normally do things that involves changing rooms in the first place. However, the times I have been naked around someone who isn't an intimate partner has more often been mixed-gender than single-gender.

I haven't done it enough for it to not feel a little weird going against the cultural conditioning, but it didn't bother me beyond that.

As a man, I don't have problems changing around women. From anecdotal experience, I think women generally feel more strongly about this. There are surely some women who don't care and men who care.

This would remove a safe space for (mostly) women and (some) men who don't feel comfortable with this.

Same as allowing transgenders to change with the gender they identify with.

> This would remove a safe space for (mostly) women and (some) men who don't feel comfortable with this.

And what of the LGBT people who don't feel comfortable?

Anecdotally, I remember two separate gay classmates in high school telling me that locker rooms made them feel super uncomfortable, once they began to discover their sexuality. Both were girls, for whatever that's worth.

Relatedly, I'm also sympathetic to straight cisgender people who are uncomfortable seeing the opposite sex's genitalia in their single-sex changing rooms.

Getting rid of these gender divisions might be the only way to put everyone on a level playing field. Either you're comfortable with everyone seeing, or you're not. If you're not, use a towel.

> So why would people care if there were women there? Is it different?

Yes, it's way different, obviously!

> I’ll go a step further and say I think the entire concept of a single-sex changing room may be outdated.

You're definitely in the minority there. Having been a 13 year old boy myself, and knowing how 13 year old boys behave, there's no way in hell I'd allow a room full of them to be in a room with my 13 year old daughter naked.

>Yes, it's way different, obviously!

Obviously if one is from a puritan culture and that's all they know.

Hasn't been as obvious in nordic countries, Germany, etc.

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