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Comment by skykooler | Hacker News Reader

KSP's approach to the precision problem is surprisingly simple: whenever you get more than two kilometers away from the origin, move the entire universe two kilometers so that the location of your craft, and all the physics-relevant computations on it, have small numbers as coordinates.

(This fix was known as Krakensbane: it solved a bug known as the Deep-Space Kraken, which was essentially that floating-point physics inaccuracies would tear your ship apart when you got much further than the moon or so, before it was implemented.)

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Pretty sure that the floating origin moves with the craft now every frame. The entire universe also orbits around the craft when it is below the inverse rotation altitude threshold, which means that PhysX is doing physics in the co-rotating reference frame. That means that the "First point of Ares" -- normally (1,0,0) -- rotates around the z-axis as the craft moves and you have to query Planitarium.right to determine what its current orientation is. That means that tick-to-tick coordinates change, which makes trajectory optimization hard because values in the future won't match at all. You have to remove that rotation to get something like actual inertial coordinates (after also removing the offset origin to the vessel as well).

They've also recently fixed issues with single precision calculation in KSP1 and used a double-precision QuaternionD.LookRotation in the maneuver nodes to keep interplanetary trajectories from hopping around a lot.

[ oh it also uses left handed coordinates, which is terrible which means (0,1,0) is the north pole and the left handed cross product gets used so dual vectors like angular momentum point south for east-going orbits -- except the Orbit class uses normal right handed vectors and when you forget to .xzy swizzle a vector for one reason or another you can wind up debugging an issue all day long ]

Ah, did not know that - last time I was working on KSP mods that interacted with that part of the code was in 0.19. Really caught me off guard when everything started to fly off into space when I tried to move ships past the end of the space center or so.

That's interesting. It doesn't sound that simple though, I imagine there are some gotchas with that. They are probably constrained by what Unity allows.

In my custom engine I did the world to camera transform for each object on the CPU in double precision, essentially making the camera the origin for all subsequent single precision computations on the GPU. That works for small objects and even large objects that are split into small parts, like a planet split into LOD terrain tiles. But it didn't work for orbit lines because they are a single object at planet scale that you can zoom in on to see at human scale (I didn't have an adaptive tesselation system like the one in the article).

It also wouldn't have worked for galaxy scale, where even double precision wouldn't be enough. I don't know exactly what Celestia and similar "entire universe" apps do. Emulated quad precision floating point?

Edit: I just realized that you are talking about precision issues with the physics engine, while I'm talking about precision issues in the rendering engine. Related but slightly different. Physics engines aren't constrained by GPUs and can use double precision throughout. But they often have stability issues even in normal circumstances so I can certainly imagine that solar system scales would be a problem even in double precision.

KSP's solution to the graphics problem is what they call "scaled space". Basically, nearby objects like your spaceship, the planet you're on, etc are rendered normally, but there is another copy of the solar system that's scaled down to 1/10 scale on another scene, and composited in behind everything. This is where things like orbit lines are drawn. It works well enough for KSP's solar system, which is rather small, but there are rendering issues with modpacks that add other solar systems far away from the sun; I suspect that since KSP2 is adding interstellar travel they are going to need to come up with another solution.

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