Hacker News Reader

Comment by overcast | Hacker News Reader

Unless it's an emergency, I've ALWAYS prioritized sleep. It's just too important for health regardless of these latest findings. I'd call in to work if I didn't get a full nights rest in the past, it's not worth feeling like shit for the rest of the day. The culture of glamorizing working longer and harder till early hours of the mornings on zero sleep, has always been nonsense. Musk is notorious for bragging about this, and the dude is a rough looking 49.

View on HN

Well, many people don't sleep enough because they cannot. Insomnia is common in midlife.

Most cases of insomnia in midlife are caused by lifestyle problems: lack of exercise, substance abuse, and obesity-induced apnea.

I think Elon Musk looks his age, and looks pretty ok for a 49 year old. Granted he has money, and he's had hair transplants, but I've seen many late 40s early 50s people in much worse shape.

He's approaching the Brimley/Cocoon Line.

Passed the Wendt/Cheers Line two years after Tesla was founded and three years before he became CEO.

He's had a lot of cosmetic...improvements. Plus he can afford personal chefs, trainers, doctors, stylists, etc.

IME, the biggest predictor for people looking younger than their age is exercising and avoiding alcohol. I'm sure sleep is in there since people who do the other 2 normally also sleep ok.

Sleep is in there, trust me. I'm 29 and look 40.

I'd add tobacco use and UV exposure to that list (anecdotal of course).

Constant stress seems the biggest ager. Intermittent stress (even at high levels), punctuated by periods of relexation, doesn't seem as bad.

See: US presidents before-and-after vs corporate CEOs

i think genes are a bigger factor

I disagree. Genes play a role by setting a min/max kind of like guardrails, but there can be a wide gradient between that min/max. Even people with arguably 'great genes' look terrible if they abuse drugs, alcohol, or their body in other ways.

Elon looked 50 when he was 30. It's definitely the money.

Probably the hair transplants.

those are alot of caveats though. excpet for blah blah blah blahb, yeah he looks good.

Compared to his earlier pictures, it looks like he 'filled out' in terms of mody mass and skull growth. That sometimes happens when you take GH for long periods.

Some people are willing to trade health for fortune and fame. There's been interviews with Musk where he describes being unable to turn his brain off. He's probably just leaning hard into the cards that life dealt him - a wildly productive brain that wants to go go go. I don't blame him for taking what he was dealt, and running with it.

He's leaning hard into the stimulants...

People with amphetamine habits typically look very skinny and unhealthy because amphetamines suppress appetite. Same for cocaine, ritalin and all other dopaminergic stimulants. They can also have facial scabs because of obsessive picking/scratching, and tend to be very twitchy and hyper. He doesn't come off that way at all during interviews.

My personal experience leads me to believe that there is no way Elon Musk could have been dosing stimulants for the last 10-20 years and look as good and as relatively calm as he does. You build a tolerance very quickly, and any edge that you thought the stimulants were giving you will fade away fast. Then, if you increase the dose, your life will spiral off the rails as you become more manic, impulsive and irrational (eg: gambling, sex, spending sprees, irritability, violence, paranoia). Just Google John McAfee if you want to see what this can look like.

IMO Elon Musk just has lucky genetics and doesn't need much sleep, always has high energy. There are people who are fortunate to be born like that.

^^ Agreed.

> IMO Elon Musk just has lucky genetics and doesn't need much sleep, always has high energy.

I remember him explaining that 6 hours was just a sweet spot (not the highest energy spot), that he would have more energy with more sleep but it wouldn't be enough to compensate for the lack of hours available in a day. Or something to this effect.

I dunno what his schedule is. Maybe he just seems busier than he actually is.

There's no way you can run all these companies, be an international celebrity, and not be busy.

>My personal experience leads me to believe that there is no way Elon Musk could have been dosing stimulants for the last 10-20 years and look as good and as relatively calm as he does.

Looks can be deceiving :P Years ago Elon was balding hard and now he has a full head of hair.

the man is overweight

Nah he's just bulking. It's all muscle under there.

Your reasoning might hold for an average user but not for a billionaire like Musk. He'll obviously have very smart people research and design a cycle for him that mitigates the usual side effects. With calorie intake monitoring, vitamins and anything you can remotely think of. A guy like Musk will also react more controlled with regard to amphetamines.

Whether he actually uses amphetamines I have no idea. But I'd not be surprised to learn that he has his own RC lab.

I know - quite literally - at least a dozen people who take amphetamines daily and display few or none of the visible descriptions you list above. None of us know what EM ingests.

Sporadic, restricted use of amphetamine tends to retain full effect over the long-term. With regular use, the subtle change in perception it causes tends to persist longer than the physical stimulation. The appetite issue can sometimes be addressed simply by actively choosing to eat more.

I do think that, in the long run, it at best averages out between the unavoidable highs and lows. Some people benefit from being able to time when those periods happen. Probably net loss in many cases. Still, the behaviour you're describing represents the end stages of escalating use and loss of control where they have fallen into dependency and/or addiction. That's not inevitable. Some people do seem to be able to self-regulate their use of strong stimulants.

But you're right. It's clear some people are just innately more driven. In the worst case they're like Elon Musk, always flitting around, perpetually alternating between chipper and enraged, and always with coffee in hand and at most four hours of sleep the night before. I find such people infuriating, but that is probably just envy.

Heck yes. When I first started in tech, I was all about the working into the wee hours. I wanted to be hardcore. I was listening to a podcast and someone mentioned what you just said, “A major culture problem in the tech industry is glamorizing lack of sleep.” Hearing that gave me the slap of reality I needed. Just because I’m present at the computer doesn’t mean I’m doing my best work. There would be times I was so tired, I’d open an application to do something then sit staring at it for a few moments because I couldn’t remember what I was going to do. Now, I evangelize sleep to all my friends and coworkers. Especially the younger ones. I want to break that cycle.

I wonder if Elon Musk has the "short sleep" genes?

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2019/08/415261/after-10-year-searc...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com