All-new iMac features the M1 chip
apple.com
apple.com
I like the direction Apple is going here, I assume they will have higher end iMacs later this year or early next year, and that's what I'll be waiting for.
I'd like 27 inches of screen, at least 16GB of ram, but preferably 32, and that's about all I'd ask for. My current workstation is a 2013 27" iMac fully upgraded (fusion drive, 16gb, good dGPU for its time - still plays Kerbal Space Program fine), so looking forward to more upgrades on the internals.
I've already run into the old WiFi and Bluetooth 4.0 as being bottlenecks and those are difficult to replace in an iMac by a normal person.
If I end up using one of those keyboards I'll probably replace the larger arrow keys with something that has the top half recessed, or just add a dimple/bar over them for a similar sensation.
Probably the designer just didn't want any empty space for aesthetics.
I created an image gallery where you can see all 3 keyboard layouts shown in the keynote video today:
- Magic Keyboard 3 (lock button)
- Magic Keyboard 3 (Touch ID)
- Magic Keyboard 3 (Touch ID and numeric keys, inverted T layout)
I wouldn’t be so sure. Unless their M1 strategy changes, I think they’ve temporarily gotten rid of iMac Pro entirely and are probably going to rely on the Mac Pro to fill that void instead.
Based on all the benchmarks we've seen with existing M1 Macs, that's clearly not the case.
The issue of being limited to only 16 MB is likely more the issue with replacing the 27-inch Intel iMac.
At this point I'm convinced that 16GB M1 isn't comparable to 16GB DDR3/4 simply because of the architecture and that the RAM is so close to the CPU. We've already seen that they are doing some crazy efficient stuff with memory, but all that said, it still feels anemic for a desktop, and I suspect the response will be the same as it was for MacBooks: normal people don't care, tech people who love Apples will wait for the inevitable upgrade.
It's closer than I thought, but on Geekbench the 8-core i7 iMac is 10% faster than the M1 MacBook Pro, and the 10-core i9 is 25% faster (https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/imac-27-inch-retina-mid-2... and https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-pro-13-inch-late-...).
The issue of being limited to only 16 MB is likely more the issue with replacing the 27-inch Intel iMac.
That's also important, yes.
I hope those New Magic Keyboard are not using the so called "new" Scissors Keys on current MacBook.
Jony Ive's departure is the best thing to happen for Apple products in a decade. They're actually *gasp* listening to their users again. There's news that the new 16 inch M1 MBP's will even have physical function keys and more ports. I cannot wait.
Furthering the idea of putting things into an external unit to save space on the desk, what if they also put the computing hardware into something like a power brick? Sounds crazy, I know, but the display could be very thin that way and there would be no need for thick chins or tons of dongles on the table.
They're certainly not for pro video or photography, where a coloured frame is the last thing you want. Which suggests they're aimed deliberately at the school, home, and hipster office markets.
Add me to this list of those waiting for an M1X iMac Pro with at least 64GB and no-compromise screen. And a black bezel.
So does this mean the M1X is delayed? Or this is Apple's tick/tock?
These colors will stand out in a way that really nothing has since the original iMac G3.
1. A silver colored M1 iMac is part of the lineup, which is a neutral color.
2. A Mac with a 4.5K Retina display, Wide color P3, True Tone and support for their 6K pro display clearly isn't exclusively targeted at school, home and hipster office markets.
3. Apple will announce build-to-order configurations where you can get 16 GB of RAM as we get closer to April 30.
So does this mean the M1X is delayed?
How can something that's unannounced be delayed? Apple hasn't announced a timeline for future M-series processors. WWDC in June is the next logical time such an announcement could be made.
Having said that, an M1X processor would make sense for the Apple Silicon versions of the iMac Pro and 16-inch MacBook Pro.
This is the benefit of Apple's policy of only announcing products when they're ready. It prevents bad publicity if there's a delay and also prevents people waiting to buy the upcoming product and waiting and not buying available ones.
All this will come with the M2 chip either in the fall lineup or next year. Same time as the 16" MBP will transfer from Intel to M-series.
I don't care what they call it, but I'll buy one :)
I think Apple will try to stick to a proper one year cadence for the M1, M2, M3 line, just like they have successfully done for years with their A series.
But we might still see an "M1X" this year. An M1 with 6 or 8 big firestorm cores.
Hard to tell. Apple might be planning to skip over the larger M1 in favor of putting the remaining products directly onto the M2 generation.
Edit: seems not.
Worth noting, there’s also an option for a keyboard with a numpad and proper inverted-T arrow keys. I don’t see it pictured, but it’s an option.
I've wanted my watch to be set as a Touch ID, or my wireless keyboard for my mac mini, and historically Apple seemed like they'd only allow physically attached Touch ID. With this product, it looks like they're providing a Touch ID keyboard that's wireless. I'm very curious how that works logistically, and if they'll make the keyboards compatible with other Apple products.
I think they may segment it as "iMac Pro"
[1] https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/259093/can-touch-i...
Because in this case you can replace the keyboard and keep it secure, which contains the Touch ID sensor.
Still, better to replace a $100 wireless keyboard than a $1200 computer.
I see new products like these and instantly get excited. It looks so cool! It's thin, the screen is nice, looks like a great product! Maybe I'll quit RHEL on desktop and move on with my life!
Then I see the price, the specs, and the 2 USB type A products clicked into my Thinkpad while I'm out of town helping an older relative. I had a Macintosh a long time ago when in college. Now, I think I'm too far down the RHEL / Thinkpad corporate hole to ever go back, and System76 has ruined my expectations for power on a desktop level (I have a Thelio). Hell, my Thinkpad is 7 years old and the only hiccup is its low screen res.
As pretty as the UI is, I'm not sure I could get used to it from years on stock GNOME and a stint on XFCE.
I might as well start buying New Balance or Nike Monarch's while I'm at it.
Macbooks are notorious for having BT issues. I've personally owned two MBPs that have had BT issues and know many friends who have also.
The multiple of anecdote is not data.
Going with what you say, no anecdote is data.
In the process of searching to fix my issues I found many other people complaining about related problems. I don't have actual data on the issue, Apple would never release such a thing, but if it was very rare there wouldn't be so many others complaining.
I also can't help but think a black bezel would look better.
Magsafe for a stationary computer...
And the previous models had their own cable, too. Not like this is new.
Hope you don't mind an extension cord and a weird box dangling somewhere! But at least the computer looks sleeker now!
Why get an all-in-one when it requires attaching a box to it? I might as well get a Mac mini at that point (which still has a built in PSU)
Every picture features an iMac on a beautiful desk with the power adaptor conveniently not in the picture. There's not really a place to hide it if you have desks like these, it's just gonna lie somewhere on the floor.
It was always a lot easier to move them around than the PC towers everyone else had. Apple even ran an ad once that showed how few cables iMacs had in contrast to a typical PC.
I mean, it's not a huge difference in portability, but it's an Apple product -- people obsess over details like this, and they pay a premium for a product that gets it right.
Also, it's nice that you can hide the external PSU in your setup, but often that's not easily possible. Eg. if you have a minimal setup with a sleek desk, there's just no place to hide the power brick. Or if you bring the computer to the living room to watch a movie... I mean, there's lots of ways to use this computer, and the external PSU is just optimized for one use case.
And it's made even worse by the fact that many people are going to end up having to attach an external hub with an extra power brick since this iMac severly lacks ports.
EDIT: And you can see that Apple doesn't like the PSU since it is conspicuously absent from their marketing page. Even the "What's in the box" picture hides the PSU: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/imac
They know that (some) people don't like power bricks.
The portability argument I understand though. I regularly move my desktop between two places and having duplicate cables and peripherals for each one has been very convenient. So seeing that, you're actually right, I would need to either buy a probably fairly expensive proprietary cable or always carry the brick; and an integrated PSU would've been more convenient.
But in the end whether this tradeoff is worth it comes down to your particular situation, and apparently Apple have decided that in general it is worth it. Personally I also don't think too many people move their desktops around that much.
The point about the power brick not showing up on the page I'd chalk up to OCD design, not malice, to be honest. It is at least hinted at because the two pictured cables are different.
And people and reviewers lamented the loss of the proprietary MagSafe power...
But on the other hand, I'm not sure who has a desktop computer with cords draped across areas people are walking.
Do different product teams just not talk to each other at Apple?
Hell, I can fantasize about one right now: make a specialized Apple USB-C charger cable with a plug a teensy bit smaller than standard USB-C, then magnetize the encasing of the plug. In addition, the furthest left and right side USB-C ports on the MacBook should be magnetic where this encasing would touch the port. This would make it so that the plug itself is loose in the socket and is purely held in place by the magnetism.
Of course this means that particular cable is only suitable for use in MacBooks as it would slip out of regular USB-C sockets. It should have a clear Magsafe symbol because of that.
In a further iteration, that kind of magsafe-C port could even be added to iPhones and iPads.
https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-iSkey-Transfer-Compa...
[1]: https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-MacBook-Charging-Braided-Dev...
Here’s hoping the m1x/m2 ones bring it back
I think the worse thing is that the iMac needs to ship with a USB-C to Lighting cable in order to charge the terrible Magic Mouse via its ridiculous bottom port that prevents use of the mouse while charging. And even the brand new magic keyboard still charges over Lighting. Lightning needs to die.
Does anyone know any?
Photo studios for one. Or anyplace outside of a studio where photography is being done long term. I saw this at a factory where a photographer was hired to take pictures of all 14,000 (!) SKUs for a new web site.
Hence the Magsafe.
>touchscreen or keyboard attached
Hence the updates to the wireless keyboard, touchpad, and mouse.
>Seems extremely unlikely to do this instead of just getting a laptop or tablet given the price.
This is the wrong way to think about these features. Yes, if this is your only use case for the device you are better off with a laptop or tablet. If this is something you do occasionally, but you primary use case is for a desktop, the iMac can now serve both uses and save you from purchasing a second device.
Like when the family gathers around the computer to look at photos or FaceTime at Christmas.
I quite like it, and with the recent shift to working from home and decrease in travel over the next couple of years I think I'll stick with this set-up for the foreseeable future: powerful desktop driving 3 5k retina monitors + cheapest laptop or ipad I can get away with on the go.
Also, putting the power brick on the floor and extending it so you can route ethernet up to the desk via a single cable is a nice idea. I hope that is a hit with customers and they expand it to other systems (namely MBP) in the future, I wouldn't mind having a couple USB-C ports down there too.
Jokes aside, putting the connection on the power brick actually seems like a really smart idea for cable management under the desk. And, you will have one fewer cable plugging into the back.
It's an aesthetic win since you don't need the cable coming out the back of the machine and it's a pragmatic win since cable management is much easier if it can plug into the power brick that's already on the ground.
It's an almost ridiculously portable stationary device
Power bricks are the most inelegant solution to a problem ever. Can’t think of a clever design to accommodate the features we want? shove it on a box and put it to the side. Lazy.
And wasn’t the M1 supposed to be so efficient minimal cooling and power were required?
It's beautiful.
...yet it somehow still has that huge pointless "chin" at the bottom. I don't think that's beautiful. I guess it's "iconic", like the ugly notch on the newer iPhones.
I'd rather have the thing a bit thicker instead, because 99% of the time I'm not looking at it from the side.
Once needed to bring my old 27-inch Intel iMac to collaborate in-person on a project. It weighed 30.5 pounds, which isn't super heavy but it was a hassle to transport.
The 24-inch M1 iMac weighs a little under 10 pounds. You could bring one of these into a conference room at work with no problem.
Wish there was a USB hub on the brick as well!
I'm not sure whether that could be Apple's line of reasoning, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Not everyone lives in a college dorm. Some people have beautiful homes with very carefully selected furnishings, and spouses that appreciate design. This fits in with that.
So both ports that are used for fixed cords plug and that plug into a wall are located at the same spot.
The ports on the computer itself are for devices that you might plug and unplug on a daily basis. Peripherals, charging cables, USBs etc.
This makes a lot of sense the way its setup. Fixed cables are grouped and separated from "free floating" cables.
From my own experience, most people end up using wifi anyway at home and in office regardless of the device type (desktop/laptop). This way the least likely to be used port is also separated from the device and also means that if you need to for whatever reason swap one iMac with another, a single plug into the new iMac will connect power and ethernet with no other setup necessary.
I am very happy to see the return of colors, love that! But white bezels around the screen? Those are a bit of a no go for me.
And of course: why still no video in, especially with such a great screen. In times of home-office, it would be so great if you could connect your work laptop to your iMac for video output. I might have gotten one just to replace my dell 24" 4k screen (they are getting rare, seems to be basically the only screen with almost 200dpi on the market). (A Vesa-mount option would be great too, especially considering thow small and light the iMac is)
Incidentally, it's not well publicised, but Apple do offer an iMac on a VESA mount. https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-mac/imac-vesa
But now maybe it can be thought that both lifetime is almost same, rarely fail thanks to solid state (except fans). So AIO would be totally fine if they implement HDMI-in if you don't need upgradability.
is there a real limitation with this architecture or are they just making a business decision so they can sell multiple models over 2-3 years instead of creating what the market wants immediately
It's just about scale for the time being, probably.
The M1 chip is now in 5 different devices. That is 100% worth not fulfilling everyone's RAM needs for the fantastic economies of scale and engineering simplicity that brings. They'll come out with an M2 soon enough, which will undoubtedly have more RAM and they'll stick in the iMac Pro, Mac Pro, and MBP 16" (and possibly "backport" to other devices).
That being said I just "downgraded" from an Intel 16" MBP with 32GB RAM to an M1 13" with 16GB RAM and haven't noticed much of a difference, even though I was regularly getting to 80-90% RAM utilization on my 16".
I think that only applies to their mobile devices. I have had Intel Macs that can't run the latest MacOS but can still Boot Camp into Windows 10. Of course, this is all moot in a post-Intel Apple world.
Also, Windows 10 in 2021 is far from being exactly like Windows 10 in 2015. There have been a lot of changes, Microsoft just doesn't increment the major number any more.
If you're saying that Windows 10 from 2021 is Windows 10 from 2015 with "minor updates", you haven't been paying attention to Windows updates :-)
Windows 10 updates are probably bigger than MacOS updates.
This is like saying Mac OS X is 10 year old software.
I agree with the latter, but tell that to their previous default of 4gb ram and 120gb ssd (for so long) and 16gb of storage on iPads.
Every single device ever made has to make tradeoffs. No device can be everything to everyone. Apple has (correctly) identified that RAM is really not the end-all-be-all that people obsessed with specs seem to think it is. If you spend more time working on other aspects of the device you can get away with less RAM and still have a device that people resell years later for good money.
Would you have bought a MacBook air or pro in 2017 with 4gb of non-replaceable ram for $1000? No, because it's obselete and you know that. What if they told you it was a great computer, and you didn't know anything about computers? Probably.
Micron and Samsung make 12 Gb LPDDR4X chips, but Apple probably decided that having a 24 Gb option wouldn't be worth it, or would be an ugly number, or couldn't get enough supply, or all of that.
The M1 is for "consumer" tier devices anyway. Wait for M1X or Mwhatever – when they port the larger MBPs to their own silicon, that will have larger memory.
I would go with supply combined with having enough supply of the 8gb modules but not enough of the 12gb ones that it would create strange tiers, while they would lean towards a 24gb machine
While it would be fun to be able to run a complete k8s cluster locally that's quite a niche usecase. There's not much software on the consumer side where having 32gb+ really makes a huge amount of difference. At least not the software Apple is showing in their presentations. Lots of people think they want a huge amount of memory, but macOS seems to be able to handle memory pressure (with transparant compression and swapping) quite well, even on machines with little memory.
I don't know why it's so hard to find a 3840x2400 24" display.
They have cut CPU costs with M1 so keeping RAM costs down ready for material price cut on these models next year.
That'd then be 1 module = 8GB, and 2 modules in a daisy chain or T-topology gets you 16GB, and there just isn't anything more to be done without a bigger memory controller (more channels) or bigger DRAM modules.
That's likely the largest that LDDR4x is ever going to go because the tech is outdated. If they had a 24GB option, you'd hear a lot fewer complaints (and the cost difference isn't massive).
They announced 16GB (128Gb) LPDDR5 chips were in mass production in Q3 of last year. These both use less power and have better performance than LPDDR4x.
Both Intel and Qualcomm have support for LPDDR5 in their chips that launched last year. No excuse for Apple here.
So as the sibling said: CPU is binned (but apparently only for the 7/8 GPU cores), RAM is added separately in the package, not on the die.
That said, I did straight up run out of RAM the other day, but my editor was chewing up something like 32gb of swap. Still no slowdown, though. (I suspect a memory leak, it's very new software)
Not currently doing any Android work so I can't comment.
From the marketing, it's clearly a consumer-oriented device. Presumably there will be "pro" versions at a later time.
Apple is a company. It is beholden to focus on profits for it's shareholders.
Why give users more RAM for free?
WHY can't everything come in the same set of colors?!?
1 set of colors for iPhones Another for watches Another now for iMacs Another for iPads
I want to color coordinate everything. If all casings for the most part are the same aluminum the paint process must be the same?
I want my phone to match my watch to match my laptop - period.
Spoiler alert: It will be the fastest iMac ever.
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/03/19/imac-pro-officially-dis...
With a bezel less display you need somewhere to attach post-it notes.
but seriously, the cooling system and speakers are built around it. Speakers in particular obey the laws of physics, so they either need to go behind it or under, and someone made that call.
Also, I'd imagine with this design the motherboard, cooling and speakers don't overlap the screen. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just much cheaper to manufacture them this way, or if since this is supposed to have a beefier sound system and an M1 configured to run hotter, there were other considerations with having screen and logic overlap that would've added thickness beyond just that of the stacked components.
At the end of the day Apple is one to choose thinness over all other things, and to leave room for future upgrades haha.
Having to add a flaky USB hub to your desktop just to plug in your keyboard is actually ridiculous. It makes sense on a laptop, but these desktops have _a lot_ of surface area on which they could put a few USB-A ports.
EDIT: Though, Apple removing the USB-A ports from everything might be what the industry needs to push peripherals to use USB-C for everything? If that's the case, then that might be a win for everyone, except for people who buy these new iMacs.
Yes, most of the decent new ones charge via USB-C.
Before I stopped counting, I found 8 wireless keyboards using bluetooth, 9 wireless keyboards using a USB-A receiver, and 10 wired keyboards using a USB-A cable. It seems like USB-A is still alive and well in the peripheral ecosystem.
Here's a link to the search results page I used: https://www.komplett.no/category/10264/datautstyr/pc-tilbeho...
It's a website which is commonly used by gamers, so wired keyboards may be over-represented compared to the general population. But it clearly shows that actually, USB-A is still really commonly used in new peripherals sold today.
I think Apple (correctly) determined that these folks will tolerate whatever they put out, buy adapters to use their beloved special keyboard, etc. And for the ones who won't tolerate it: they're probably not buying Apple hardware anyway.
EDIT: Just to respond to the "gamers and people who code are in a different class" thing: I went to a different store which is more general, went through the most sold keyboards, and skipped all "gaming" keyboards (so everything from Razer, everything branded Logitech G, everything with RGB), and counted to 14 bluetooth keyboards and 19 keyboards which require USB-A (7 wired, 12 with the USB receiver dongle). People just use USB-A peripherals a whole lot. (Store URL: https://www.elkjop.no/INTERSHOP/web/WFS/store-elkjop-Site/no...)
I am surprised that most peripherals do still use USB-A to charge, and my argument did change to reflect that new information.
The only keyboards I counted as requiring USB-A are ones which are wired with a USB-A cable, and ones which are wireless but only have the ability to use an RF receiver dongle such as the logitech unifying receiver. Your mouse would be counted in the "Bluetooth" category.
Plenty of devices don't benefit from an "improved version with USB C" and in a computer this size it shouldn't be a problem to include at least one
No. More. Frigging. Dongles. For anything - you can plug both modern USB-C docks AND keyboards and USB sticks easily. Crazy.
A lot of USB-A to USB-C data cables sold on Amazon are still only USB 2.0 standard (480 mbps). Not all C to C cables can be used for high watt power delivery, etc. Some cables only charge. And then there's those USB-C and/or Thunderbolt docks whose video ports may or may not work depending on what your PC's capabilities are.
I think the creators of USB-C should have come up with some type of lettering or numbering system to reduce the confusion. At least there would be a chart that "normals" could refer to in terms of whether they're buying the right cable.
As for USB-A, there are tons of peripherals still in existence out there. Maybe you're fucking loaded and you don't care about just buying everything USB-C, but that's definitely not the case for everyone. Suppose I have a nice USB-A optical mouse and mechanical keyboard that I like for example, or a really nice $200 audio interface. I guess I need to buy yet more dongles, or throw them away and replace everything with USB-C peripherals because some 20yo on HN says that USB-A is legacy. Thanks Apple. You definitely value user experience above all else.
No, it's not. It's a consumer-grade machine. And clearly aimed at that market.
I wrote about this further up in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26883718
It's too thin to support a standard RJ45 port in the back like previous Macs.
macOS has supported Thunderbolt Ethernet/USB-A dongles for years if you want to go that route instead of using the Ethernet built-in to the power adapter.
The concern about dongles is so overblown. Let's take your examples each in turn.
>Suppose I have a nice USB-A optical mouse
You buy a USB-C to USB-A adapter and it lives on the mouse's USB-A connector, never being taken off, forever. And then... it's one piece. Are you taking the mouse with you? The dongle comes with it. You don't gotta think about it.
>mechanical keyboard
Same deal. Lots of keyboards even have USB-A ports on them -- which means you only need 1 dongle. One for the keyboard. That lives on the end of the USB-A connector. You have now converted your legacy USB-A device to USB-C and can forget about it forever, for the cost of $5 from Monoprice.
>a really nice $200 audio interface
If you really, for some reason just cannot stand to add a $5 add-on piece to get the latest gear from Apple, many of these devices have detactable cables. So, you can just.. buy a different cable. Let's take the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, which matches your use case at $200. A replacement cable from MonoPrice is... $5.29. And you can put away the old cable and just... have this one.
At the very, very worst case, you're talking about a $1200 machine and an additional cash outlay of approximately $15. For adapters which attach to the thing you want to use, forever, and don't have to be thought of again.
And somehow this is a travesty against the user? Worth of a scrap-and-redesign of the $1200+ machine?
This is not helpful
Under "Connections and Expansion" [1] https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/specs/
- 2x USB ports
- 2x Thunderbolt ports
- 1x HDMI
"Half a decade" is not that long considering that the external mic I purchased in 2020 for WFH requires USB-A.
Why on earth would I want to switch to newer models that require a dongle for everything?
Most people are still on USB-A, especially those who are not tech savvy.
There are lots of legitimate complaints about the iMac, and indeed the entire Apple ecosystem nowadays, but this isn't one of them.
https://www.amazon.com/Syntech-Adapter-Thunderbolt-Compatibl...
Logic board and speakers have to go somewhere, they can either go behind the display and make things thicker or they can go in the chin bar area.
I was surprised they did that too - I expected a look that was more like the pro display. Other than that though I'm pretty impressed with the design, and it is quite thin. It looks like how I'd imagine a 'future' computer to look.
So I think they prioritized thinness, which meant there was not enough room for screen+board+ports stacked, and they had to offset them. It's probable that the whole SoC and board are in the chin, given how small they are in the MacBook Air/Pro:
https://www.ifixit.com/News/46884/m1-macbook-teardowns-somet...
Besides being iconic: To make the 16:9 aspect ratio less apparent. There may also be thermal benefits from separating the logic board from the panel.
Even without the logo, it makes the design more recognizable as a iMac from the front. Apple doesn't want people to mistake it for a regular old monitor.
Especially when iMacs end up in movies and tv shows.
It's really thin, so to fit the motherboard etc. Also to fit the six speaker sound system.
If they had the tech, they would have done this a long time ago.
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
There's a huge market for making TVs look like anything other than a slab of glass. Aesthetics count. Is why the 17 inch iMac with the crane neck is still covered.
The fact that's effectively the same price as the M1 Air is interesting. Like the Air it's a very good deal, and it'll put other all-in-ones on notice.
$999 vs $1299, what am I missing?
Is it really that infeasible to just make all identical ports behave identically?
My parents have a story about how at age 6 I moved our Apple IIGS into my bedroom. They were more bewildered than angry. The one thing I remember is my older brother saying how because every port was uniquely shaped even a child can set up an Apple.
(It’s a limitation of the I/O bandwidth on the M1, which makes me wonder why they didn’t wait for a new generation before building desktops with it. Maybe they were afraid of having no iMacs on the shelf since the old ones were discontinued?)
These are entry-level iMacs and the majority of potential buyers will be fine with the port selection. It's probably not worth delaying an important device like the iMac for such a relatively minor downside. That said, I'm personally waiting for the larger iMac (Pro?) which won't feature such limitations.
A 27”+ would require to push at least 5k (possibly 6k) for the internal monitor + 6k for the external
For comparison the M1 Mac mini supports one 4K display and one 6k display. So it seems that this is close to the maximum for the M1 chip
It also means that for us with 5k2k monitors we will not get back our missing scaling options (at least not with M1)
and their laptops have lower than 4k resolutions.
They want to make sure their 6k display is supported across their entire lineup. Even the M1 Air supports it.
Really hope Apple will return the more normal end of display offerings, haven't found any alternatives with ""retina"" DPI from other manufacturers (except the LG Fine models...).
Who wants to bet that despite there probably being no pressing need to do so, the SSD will be permanently soldered onto the motherboard rather than as a M.2 NVME card?
in the intel world there's a whole class of CPUs that absolutely max out at 8W, 12W or 15W, you can go somewhat higher in a fatter laptop.
If you were to sit the two side by side on a desk and run a complicated pure-cpu x265 1.5 hour ffmpeg encode of a 4K video from raw y4m, the pro will probably race ahead after about 20 minutes, after the heat has soaked into the air.
It has nothing to do with the shape and size of the board, which differs between the two machines significantly.
Are you asking why is it important to have a good camera for online video conferencing? Look at all the guides that teach people how to use DSLRs as their webcams.
That's not a problem, since Zoom and co don't stream in higher resolutions anyway, and even 720p will be highly compressed
We are talking here about the average person's use-case
Using resolution as a shorthand for actual image quality doesn't reflect the reality of how cameras work, never mind that full HD already pushes the limits of most people's streaming capabilities (both video encoding and bandwidth).
AMD chips would have failed if they had used them too - that was the era of "baking your GPU" due to failed solder bumps and that definitely applied to AMD too, Apple is just such a clientzilla that they demanded payment for an industry-wide problem caused by the switch to RoHS-compliant solders. I think it's much more about control - CUDA is a third-party ecosystem that Apple doesn't want its clients getting dependent on, because then that would constrain apple's choices in hardware. Nobody locks in Apple's clients except Apple.
I would think the M1s are more than fast enough to do a nice job downsampling in real time from 4K to 1080p.
Also, the M1s are fast enough to be someone's main computer for a long, long time. 4K future proofs your system a little more.
A lot of Youtubers are not streaming, which is what most people use their laptop webcams for.
> I would think the M1s are more than fast enough to do a nice job downsampling in real time from 4K to 1080p.
Just video encoding a 1080p stream in itself is already extremely intensive even for high-end CPUs. Especially considering that I (like most users) am simply trying to take a call, and have actual work already going on that I want my processor to spend its time on.
4K downsampled to 1080p looks a lot better than a 1080p "native" sensor.
Reducing the size of electronics has always been a goal for consumer hardware companies. Look no further than the memory stick which now supports tens and hundreds of gigabytes on a piece of metal smaller than your finger nail.
It's quite nice having devices that have such small profiles. It's the result of incredible engineering to fit more power in a smaller space for really very few tradeoffs.
It’s nice to shoot in 4K for flexibility of cropping etc later. But for me, I decided to save money this year. And I’m happy with my decision.
So for a video call camera, personally I think 1080p is totally sufficient.
Another user pointed out that a Watch can fill a similar void, but keeping one _just_ for authentication seems overkill.
Maybe binding the system password into the keyboard firmware is ok. Unless you need to worry about someone dumping FW or decamping chips or whatever.
I thought Apple was fairly close with Disney, so I'd have expected to see a Disney or Pixar movie, not a DreamWorks movie. Or was that only when Jobs was running things?
"On January 24, 2006, Jobs and Iger announced that Disney had agreed to purchase Pixar... When the deal closed, Jobs became The Walt Disney Company's largest single shareholder with approximately seven percent of the company's stock."
I assume that is the primary reason Apple and Disney were close in the Jobs days.
(Also, 2m power cable is a bit short for an articulating monitor arm...)
It's ridiculous, because a VESA mount is literally just 4 holes with M4 thread.
With Apple, everything is secondary to profit.
I suspect this device is targeted towards kids and students (as evidenced by the colours and the choice of voice actor), and Apple wants adults and workers to buy a (more expensive) future iMac Pro with a bigger screen.
That's the question...
You might see something via virtualisation or emulation but my guess is it won't be official.
If Microsoft do anything my money would be on some kind of app with Windows running in the cloud.
Honestly, if you want to play some Steam games on ARM macOS (and to be clear, I think PC gaming on a mac will always be rough), your best bet is to fork over some cash and buy CrossOver for Mac. CrossOver combined with Rosetta 2 can run x86 Windows binaries on an M1 ARM Mac, and Rosetta 2 is really impressive and well tuned.
It’s not just drivers then afaik? It’s the entire win10, not to mention all third party drivers i guess like Razer and whatnot.
The memory is also a concern. They didn't show the memory in the summary slide like they did with the MacBooks and Mac mini. This is just disappointing. I hope 16gb an option.
I really wish we could get back to 32gb.
[edit] 16GB is an option according to the tech specs page https://www.apple.com/imac-24/specs/ [/edit]
The additional ram will come (though with M1 it doesn't seem nearly as big of a priority to have more).
There wouldn't really be any increase in desk usage if the power brick was integrated into the display. The stand's size will still be more or less the same even if the display was twice as thick, as it's going to be more about supporting the leverage from the upper part of the display at whatever angles it supports being at rather than a bit of extra thickness & weight in the bottom part of the display.
The problem with the brick is it's something you have to cable manage. You need to mount that brick somewhere or have it sitting visibly ugly on the floor. And since it has a port on it, you need to be able to access it more often than you otherwise would. It's classic form over function here. They wanted it to look like a big ipad, and they made compromises to achieve that. It does look nice, but you are paying for that in more than just the MSRP price.
If you really care about the minimal amount of desk footprint then get the one with a VESA mount instead & put it on a monitor arm.
Is it still possible to connect a hub for additional peripherals? I have 6x connected to my machine currently (external drives, printer, audio stuff, backup mouse, card reader), not counting extra screens.
Really hope this works cause these machines look awesome.
Seems like it's the same as the M1 MacBook Air and Pro.
The M1 air and mini were great value, because they replaced machines that were ridiculously slower at the same or lower price. The new iMac does a secret price hike (by starting at $1299 instead of $1099) and the performance jump for those middle tiers is not as big as for the air and mini. I don't think this offers the same amazing value as the previous M1 macs, especially since a desktop needs more RAM and more storage.
Also, it is very amusing they're still selling the dual core i5 21.5 inch non-retina iMac to hit that all-important $1099 price for schools. That's a terrible product, but they just keep selling it indefinitely. I feel sorry for all the people that will buy that model.
On the one hand, that would be better for me, because the way my desk is laid out to plug in my headphones on my iMac I have to reach under the front and jumble around blindly.
Having the headphone jack on the left side would be easier.
On the other hand, someone with a second monitor that prefers it on the left might find that it is in the way of their headphones.
What I really wish they would do is make it so that you can keep your headphones plugged in, and choose via the Sound settings whether you want sound to go to them or the internal speakers.
EDIT: My iMac is a 2017 model. From what I've read elsewhere, they may have changed the behavior described in the "What I really wish" paragraph in later models.
If you click the sound button on the menu bar to open the menu, it will have a headphones entry if headphones are plugged in, and an internal speakers entry if headphones are not plugged in.
As you plug in and unplug headphones, with the menu showing, that entry dynamically changes. (Same on the Sound panel in System Preferences).
This appears to be entirely a software decision on Apple's part, rather than some sort of electrical/mechanical design that forces the speakers to be disconnected when the headphones are inserted. In this discussion [1] on Ask Different people report that when they run Windows via Bootcamp, they can choose via software between headphones and internal speakers.
BTW, my iMac is a 2017 model. They might have changed this with later models.
[1] https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/6510/use-internal-...
It’s easy to switch between built in speakers, wired headphones and AirPods. All with unplugging anything.
Artificially limiting the RAM options in air/pro13 vs pro14-16 laptops? What else could be different except maybe 1-2 ports? Same for iMac 24 vs 27 coming in the fall? IPhone pro v's iPad pro difference is the big screen and a port?
It will also allow for faster iterations now that they are not dependent on Intel so I think the future will be even more interesting than this first release of M1.
Where is the best place to sell a 1yr old Mac?
Binning?
I’d hate for any of these to have a life I’d just few years due to that, especially as my 2013 MBP is still my primary machine.
https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/24/m1-mac-external-display-worka...
I wonder how this new model works on PCs. The previous one was flawless.
And whether keyswitches have been modified.
Too much to hope for a Dave2D review today?
Doesn't the MacBooks come with an 16GB option?
it would be consistent for this to only have it, unfortunately
edit: this is incorrect. 16gb is available, didn't realize.
ah that's right its also the absence of a >13inch M1 machine that keeps me on the fence
Those seeking more power would likely opt for a MBP and external monitor.
that OS and the apps over there are supper efficient
it is the same story as iPhone vs Android phones, android always needed 2x more ram/battery than iPhones because the android ecosystem is bloated and slow, just like windows
I don't care how memory efficient a particular application is when the size of the data it's processing has grown enormously.
8GB is to remind software developers that it is plenty enough
You don't want to be in the Android situation where everyone have 4gb-16gb ram in their phones, and as a result developers are bloating their apps with poor programming models, wich results in needs of bigger battery and bigger disk space, this is bad
I haven't used Android phones but my experience with Apple tells me that the phones get slower with every update.
8GB RAM is fine for a large portion of casual users and if it keeps the base price down I'm okay with it.
- A web browser with many open tabs. - An audio player - A few code editors / IDE - A chat / video conference software since COVID-19 - An email client once in a while that I tend to leave open - Various development tools - The software stack of my company for development in a Linux VM
> Configurable to 16GB unified memory
Still no dual monitors?
such a waste that it can’t be used as an external display.
It's the complete opposite of the bloat culture from Microsoft and slowness of Windows 10
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide...
> slowness of Windows 10
Interestingly I've never had a slow experience on Windows 10 at all and I use an i7 from 2016.
Its kind of like Light Mayo vs regular Mayo, you don’t notice the difference in isolation, but things get awkward side-by-side.
My M1 Mini is much faster than my 2017 i7 PC with 32gb ram and fast m.2 SSD
Edit: to be clear, my main way of testing was trying to launch the same apps side-by-side, and load the same websites side-by-side. 2014 Macbook Pro beat the much newer Windows 10 device every time. The Windows device doesn’t melt down with Minecraft, but that doesn’t change the fact that latency for basic tasks (e.g. opening the browser) is worse for Windows, for inexplicable reasons.
In the United States where one-third of computers on the web are already running macOS, sure. That definitely won’t be the case worldwide though.
I don’t see how this is appropriate for today’s MacOS. MacOS will use RAM. Currently it’s using about 34 GB of 64 GB on my machine.
I understood on their ultralight notebooks, but the iMac is not giving me confidence about what they might offer for their Mac Pro.
16GB ram limit 512GB storage limit un-upgradable
You are better off getting a Mac Mini, its the same performance.
If you wanna complain about the practice, you can complain that they have no way to attempt to re-enable the locked core. AMD would let you do that back in the day, and it was a great way for customers to buy a 3-core and potentially be able to unlock a fourth core (even if it might have to be clocked lower than the others). Though I believe neither Intel nor AMD lets you unlock cores these days.
So have you noticed the high-quality HiDPI 4.5K display, the wireless keyboard, the six speakers and the webcam that this has over the Mac Mini?
Previous gen Intel iMac: 27'', 10Gbe network, up to 128 GB RAM.
The new one: 24'', 1Gbe, up to 16 (?) GB. But... you can make it purple. Thanks but I think I'll wait a bit.
It looks hideous, has no ports, no memory. Such a letdown.
Not one feature is a step up from the current iMac. The M1 is so limiting on a desktop.
I guess they are really trying to push people into the iPad.
After about one year I had a simple fan issue, the fan was making high pitch noise (revving full speed) and would start up randomly.
It was likely a very minor issue... but then i felt so powerless : to fix it I’d have had to send it back and wait, my entire development environment, private files and notes, browser with possibly logged in sessions,... I mean you have to return the entire thing... it’s not like you could replace the power adapter, or screen.
I’ve been wondering about workarounds as I don’t care for "triple a" games, plenty of awesome smaller games that dont need a beefy and hot gpu.
But the only idea i have is to install the os and everything on an external SSD so at least if i have to send it for repair, I have all my dev stuff with me.
I could also have a linux install so i can even use it in theory without the mac, but then what is the point of getting the imac and its os experience right?
So I don’t know what I am missing... how are other devs comfortable with this?
It's easy enough to "clone" a Mac boot disk to an external device if you need to ship it back, but at some point the "computer isn't working" problem comes to all systems.