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BiteCode_dev

But not Rust.

And Go is better if you do I/O.

That's my points. Compromises.

I'm not saying "Java is bad". I'm saying, "I have no use case where I, personally, would use Java over something else."

I do know other people have use cases for it.

I just don't, because those compromises don't make sense for me.

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Where is Rust AWT? Not to mention Swing, JavaFX, or even an whole mobile ecosystem.

Well, if we create a desktop app, the Python + C bindings will be a better choice for my own project. Easier to dev, equivalent perfs, equivalent libs (and the QT Rad is excellent).

Java does have android right now, although it has to share with ReactNative, Xamarin and flutter. Again, for different compromises.

So apparently Rust isn't that better than.

Java also has the IDE ecosystem between Netbeans, Eclipse and all JetBrains offerings, with exception of Apple and Microsoft offerings.

It's not a matter of better. The original comment is all about what compromises work for me, and why I don't have a use case for Java.

You are trying to move the debate toward the quality of java, which is was never my point.

Not at all, I though your point was how Rust and Go are a much better option.

> If I do, I won't go Java, I will choose something that is built for performance. Python is good enough for 99% of my performances need. The last 1%, jumping to java is not a big difference, I'll use rust or go.

So given that, I am curious where are those GUI alternatives with the required perfomance in Go and Rust.

So you are in the very niche use case where:

- you need a GUI

- you need perf beyond what Python is capable and you identified it clearly in advance

- you can't use numpy / multiprocessing / cython, pypy or they won't give you the perf you need

- you can't find a main hotpath you can optimize with a 5 lines c or rust extension and write 99.99% of your app in python. Or you don't want to bother.

If you ever find yourself in this very use case, then yes, use Java.

But I never found myself in this very precise use case.

No, he is in need of writing production quality software together with his medium to big sized dev team and he doesn't want to introduce maintenance burden into his project 10 years from now. Software will get improved during it's lifetime and not overwritten from scratch every 2 years.

With external contractors arriving to work on a foreign code base just for a couple of Jira tickets as per department budget.

> multiprocessing

Please.... That's literally the worst option for python on this planet. For all "just do multiprocessing" the tooling is horrible garbage. Then we get to Twisted and Gunicorn the Spring Framework of Python world.

To be fair, even people deep in the Java ecosystem don't like its desktop application/GUI support.

Its only saving grace is that all other cross-platform GUI systems also suck, and if you're doing everything else in Java it might be the path of least resistance.

For ordinary desktop apps, javafx is quite good. It’s a hidden gem in the ecosystem.

(Though I haven’t tried its mobile “backend”)

Only the people that are too lazy to actually learn how to do it properly,

"Filthy Rich Clients" by the nowadays Android UI architects

http://filthyrichclients.org/

"Swing Hacks: Tips and Tools for Killer GUIs" by Joshua Marinacci, well know in the UI research community

https://www.amazon.de/dp/0596009070

And then commercial libraries like

http://www.jgoodies.com/

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