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Comment by thehappypm | Hacker News Reader

An Amazon warehouse worker very much can live up to the extremely high standard of living in the US, perhaps not lavishly, but at this income level can still own a home, have a family, have health care, and so on. Poor farmers in third-world countries watch their babies die from curable diseases.

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An amazon worker makes, on average, $15 per hour. That's $31,500 per year. That is just a bit above poverty - the poverty level for a family of 4 is $26,500. You probably are going to have issues saving up for a house, and are going to be lucky to have enough leftover money to actually use the health care. Deductibles of $2-3k are really difficult at that range, especially if you have a family.

In short, you are going to need your spouse to work as well. Then things look up, so long as both of you work. Good luck if you aren't dual income, though.

Folks in the US die preventable deaths, by the way. And a lot of "third world countries" have health care in place, sometimes more fairly widespread than the US.

The median US salary for an individual is 30k per year (median family income is 50k). So with an Amazon job an essentially unskilled worker can make more than half of all other Americans.

fwiw, your numbers are correct, but the 30k figure includes part time workers and is therefore skewed to the downside. Among full time workers, the median annual income is about $51k for men and $48k for women, according to data collected by the BLS.

So? The average is still not much above the poverty level, and as such, still poor.

But look at the low median wages. There are already so many poor people in the US, whats 1 million more?

/sarcasm

> The median US salary for an individual is 30k per year (median family income is 50k).

Median family income is ~86k. [0]

Median household income, which is likely what you wanted to cite and is the more common measure, is still much more than 50k, at ~68k. [1]

Median personal income is about 36k. [2]

Median hourly wage is $20.17. [3]

So, no, a $15/hr Amazon worker isn’t making above-median wage and, even if they work 40hr weeks for a full year, isn’t making above-median income.

[0] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEFAINUSA646N (nb: “family” for this purpose is defined basically as a household of two or more related by blood, marriage, and/or adoption.)

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

[2] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/release/tables?rid=249&eid=25956...

[3] https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#00-0000

So, at Amazon's entry level, you're making 85% of the median personal income, plus benefits. And that's for their lowest paid FT employees, it can only go up from there. Where's the problem exactly?

Many people don't make enough money to buy a house without a partner's income. This has been the case before amazon existed.

The comment I replied to did not specify this, though. They just said buy a house, which is obviously not always possible.

In Bessemer Alabama, where the union effort recently was voted down by the employees, the median annual income is $19,000 and Zillow is full of houses selling for $110k.

$31.5k is a middle class income there and certainly not poverty level.

The US poverty line for a family of 4 is 26,xxx. 4-5k above poverty level is not middle class: you are still poor. It isn't like that 5k a year - $416 before taxes - puts you in middle class. You are still getting free lunch, for example. You still qualify for SNAP.

House prices aren't telling you anything: Poor folks have trouble saving up for a down payment and have more issues keeping credit good enough for a house, due to lack of funds to pay things. House prices matter little if you can't actually qualify to buy them.

> An amazon worker makes, on average, $15 per hour. That's $31,500 per year. That is just a bit above poverty - the poverty level for a family of 4 is $26,500.

This is also pretty much at the poverty line if relative poverty is calculated like in most other OECD countries - as 60% of median income. That would be about $3100/month for two adults.

Yeah, I know there is some relative stuff there, but figured it was easiest to use the US government's numbers.

> An amazon worker makes, on average, $15 per hour.

That’s Amazon’s minimum, not average. That is, every Amazon worker makes more than that.

Not according to these - where do you get your information?: https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Amazon-Warehouse-Worker....

https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Amazon-Warehouse-Worker....

You need a bit of perspective. The last part of your sentence hasn't been true in our country in the last 50 years. Working 3 jobs like a robot isn't what I consider high standard of living.

many 3rd world countries have 100% covered free healthcare, "babies die from curable diseases" is what you read in media to feel superior

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/infant-mortalit...

I think people who live in what have been determined to be the happiest societies would strongly disagree with you here.

Own a home, not likely. Not without at least a second job or income from a spouse or extended family.

This is apartment rental income, not ownership class income.

The median monthly mortgage payment in the US is $1200, which means half of them are less than that. Not everywhere is the Bay Area or other super high cost of living areas. (And yes, I realize a mortgage is not the only cost of owning a home)

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/ahs/data/interactive...

Yeah, when you add up all of the actual costs, you still have to be lucky enough to find an affordable property, have good credit and have significant savings set aside beforehand, and then you'll be living on margins so thin one bad accident or unplanned expense will be catastrophic.

It's certainly not true that a $15/hr wage at an Amazon warehouse alone can "very much" support the "extremely high standard of living in the US" mentioned upthread as a general statement of fact.

The problem is the capital. Poor people don't have capital, they live paycheck to paycheck. Nobody is buying any mortgages without a down payment.

Why on earth did this get downvoted?

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