Images of Hatha Yoga from the Joga Pradīpikā (19th Century)
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[1] https://the-public-domain-review.imgix.net/collections/hatha... [2] https://the-public-domain-review.imgix.net/collections/hatha... [3] https://the-public-domain-review.imgix.net/collections/hatha... [4] https://the-public-domain-review.imgix.net/collections/hatha...
/Atha yoganushasanam/ == अथ योगानुशासनम == let us start yoga with discipline.
This is the first /sootra/ (verse). And every verse builds on the previous. And in the 2nd verse he defines what is yoga.
/Yogashchittavruttinirodhah/ == योगःचित्तवृत्तिनिरोधः == ...
Literal meaning of Yoga is add, sum, to be one with. For believers, it could be - "to be one with God", for spiritual, meditating people - "to be one with supreme consciousness". And as Vivekananda explains to non-believers, you can think of atman as a form of energy... it can never be created nor destroyed... so just oscillate between energy and partical form... and yoga means to be one with the source (energy).
As par India system of yogic tradition, that is the goal of every human being and Patanjali tells us how to achieve that. /Yogashchittavruttinirodhah/ "Yoga means suppressing (/nirodhah/) the fluctuations (/vrutti/) of mind (/chitta/)." Well, I am using close meanings. Patanjali divides our mind into various logical parts.
I find this really fascinating. Must read. But the best book that I have found is in Sanskrit and Hindi.
To see how succinct they are, read Bon Giovanni's translation at https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/yogasutr.htm
If you are new to the subject start with Swami Vivekananda's Raja Yoga which is a very loose but accessible overview.
For a detailed study with notes from various commentaries, see The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali trans. by Edwin Bryant.
The above two should give you a solid foundation after which you can move on to even more exhaustive translations with specific commentaries.
From the article: "a way the sacred can come into life”.
Basically a way to strengthen the resonance of the chakras and effectively 'raise the Kundalini fire' i.e. to help you achieve a specific kind of enlightenment.
Or at least in their view. [1]
This is effectively the point of 'Yoga' in it's greater sense, it's just rarely communicated in those terms. The degree to which people practice Yoga and don't realize that it's an intensely religious exercise, mostly designed to bring them to (supposed) 'enlightenment' is a little baffling.
All of these interpretations border on the occult. At the end of the day, yoga is like meditation - it needs to be clearly defined. Decoupled from all the mysticism, it's just a bunch of exercises.
India definitely had some cool fitness systems, but they are mostly lost, like their martial arts.
Until there is a clear "do y, get x", this is all overly-obfuscated to build mystique.
I.e. "lift weights 3x8 3x a week, be able to lift 1-5% more weights in 2 weeks". Very clear, very defined. None of that here with yoga.
Yoga is effectively Religion (you could argue 'Spiritual Philosophy').
This is not an 'interpretation' - it's literally an orthodox branch of Hinduism. [1]
Hatha Yoga - a subset - is more physically involved and it's the branch of Yoga we see in Western Yoga studios.
We really can't reduce it to a bunch of poses.
Yes, much of the 'spiritual language' is often removed, but the objective remains the same, which is putting you on the path to enlightenment.
'Calming the mind' is really just the first step of that.
By the way 'Hatha' means 'Force' in Sanksrit, and by 'Force' in this context they mean to force or the journey to Enlightenment by will, as opposed to it coming more passively, or by other practices.
Western studios can avoid using these kinds of ideas and language, but that almost renders it pointless, or maybe worse, paternalistic, in that students are not even told the true nature of what they are being taught, kind of like children.
To someone from India, it must be kind of bizarre seeing all of these Western people participating in something Indians designed for a purpose, whereupon Westerners seem to be kind of ignorant of it all.
With that said, there is rhyme and reason to this. The physical aspect is important because you can't meditate effectively if you can't even get into a comfortable pose (and I really do mean comfortable, not convoluted) without pain. You can't focus on your breath or heartbeat if it's erratic, heavy, or you are distracted by pain, indigestion, uppers, etc. So the physical aspect can be understood as a way to facilitate deep meditation.
This ties in with your "calming the mind point". Here is where it gets shady - nobody really knows what this means. We have "let go of all thoughts, be a passive observer, lol transcendental mantras", etc. In reality, reading "Altered Traits" and other meditation books, we get that maybe, maybe it helps with willpower (frontal lobe development according to "The Willpower Instinct") and focus. I will venture that it helps with working memory, and potentially IQ-related tasks.
Extrapolating from that, we can tie in with the Egyptian concept of "not losing yourself in the afterworld" (or dreams, or every day life), by being engaged, aware, and being able to recognize and analyze reality, or perception thereof if we get into Buddhism.
What that really leads to, in an enlightment sense, is very unclear.
Note that I went off on a BUNCH of tangents, but all these systems really try to tie together into some whole, which seems to be similar to what I described, but it's not clearly stated anywhere.
I promise you I am not arguing to argue, but I have been looking for an answer here for a long time, and I find none. Again, unless it's that "it's religion", in which case "that's that". On that note, these convos are difficult because there is no coherent system, but people seem to view them based on the system they are coming from - Yoga, Buddhism, breath work, lucid dreaming, whatever. That's too isolationist imo.
There are yoga teachers (modern and old) who teach a clear "do y, get x" system. Patanjali, author of the Yoga Sutras outlined a clear progression if you understand the language. Knowledgeable modern teachers have updated the language. See my other comment on a recommended author.
The very clear progression is:
1. Practice the postures (asana) until you can comfortably remain in one of the seated meditational practices for an hour or so. This is a prerequisite to being able to enter meditation and requires hip flexibility. The postures also provide a baseline level of fitness, relax the body and mind prior to the next steps.
2. Pranayama - breathing exercises. The aim is to balance the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems which apparently leads to a stilling of the mind. Slow breathing also reduces mental chatter and encourages relaxation, another prerequisite for meditation under normal circumstances. The GP mentions "Kundalini fire", and learning to generate heat internally via the breath (or breath suspension) is cited in many traditions as one of the fastest ways of bringing about changes in the body that facilitate meditation.
3. Meditation - entering a "mind awake, body asleep" state. This requires keeping the body motionless and the spine erect (hence the requirement for the seated meditation posture) and is achieved by turning the senses inward to the extent that you become pretty much oblivous to the outside world. This may be accompanied (or preceded) by the breath becoming shallow to the point of being almost imperceptible, and the body stiffening and you feeling detached from it as if it's a hollow shell. Once this happens various internal phenomena may occur, and they can be used as objects of meditation and may be in the realm of mystical experiences.
Goal-oriented people can be given goals. But since most people aren't able to harness the full power of their subconscious it seems rather pointless to have a goal-oriented mentality. That rather flies in the face of trying to achieve states of non-attachment which seem to help reach these levels that are dependent on deep relaxation. That said, some people do provide certain guidelines in terms of numbers of hours of practice per day to help expedite the process.
The only part I seem to disagree on / misunderstand is the absolute requirement of sitting w/ upright spine. Seems to me that the real pre-req is a comfortable, stable position of some sort.
As you can tell, I am not into Hinduism/Buddhism, but I try to derive value from any possible source, but to derive it, I need to define it. While I understand that you can't really describe some things, we are getting into "can't describe AT ALL, not even in some vague sense" when we get into mystical experiences.
I find this strange, since I can describe the value of things like lucid dreams, full relaxation, etc, at least to some degree.
> "...requirement of sitting w/ upright spine"
TBH I think that's a traditional thing - I think it really facilitates proper movement of the ribcage without slouching so you're able to take full breaths, without being so relaxed as going to sleep. I have experienced interesting things happening while on the borderline of sleep so this may not be an absolute requirement.
But I had a moment about ten years ago. It came from nowhere, though there was a lead up. I was doing something, relaxing but vigorous, and I felt all my self-imposed limiting thoughts and beliefs drop away. It happened in an instant and there was a mental and physical manifestation of the moment, it was tremendous. It lasted about 20 minutes and then it changed again.
I remember those 20 minutes very clearly. It upended everything I felt about my existence. It was like a drug trip, but not. It may have been a blink of enlightenment, though I wouldn’t dare to characterize it as such. It’s hard to define, but it’s been defined in all kinds of literate.
I’m not trying to recapture that, but I do try and live my life with the knowledge that it’s out there. Perhaps it can be approached, perhaps it can return again, in an instant. It came during a doing, that much is clear. I’ll keep doing.
The image at the top is related to Kundalini per the caption. This form of yoga seems to be synonymous in my area of the US (DC) and probably others with a group termed "white sikhs". They originate from a 60/70s group started by an Indian guru. Sikhism traditionally does not involve yoga but the guru that started the US Sikh group had a background in it so yoga was an integral part of his teachings. The group became ~~somewhat of~~ a cult and guru investigated for abusive practices, but they now seem to just be devout Sikhs with slightly different traditions and organization than Indian counterparts. They seem to be shunned by some Punjabis as not "real" Sikhs while other Punjabis have joined them.
I am caucasian with a non-practicing Indian Sikh wife and did a project on Sikhism when I went back to school years ago, which is where I learned about them. Not long after, a temple we visited with my wife's family turned out to be one started by white sikhs, with Kundalini yoga studio underneath. It was very interesting seeing caucasians in full Sikh garb and small sword, including women which is not common with Punjabi Sikhs. I saw an older caucasion lady with sikh turban some years later leaving my office building and I said "sat siri akal" which surprised her, then she returned the greeting with a huge smile.
I find their story fascinating and I hope I haven't offended anyone here that is part of this group. For some reason I can't find the pages and videos I used for research a decade ago. Here are some that I found though...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epQhHjf8pTs
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/yogi-bhajan/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-disturbing-mainstream_b_6...
I have added a huffpost article that states "Akal Security, the largest judicial security contractor in the United States, has been awarded at least $3.5 billion in Federal contracts since the year 2000, and its clients include the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Justice, and the Department of Defense. "
Somebody explained "Yoga" to me once as the addition of self (jibatma) to the universe (paramatma). So this process requires many components. And according to some these components are independent of one another.
One famous yogi talked about 4 yogas- 1. Knowledge yoga 2. Work yoga 3. Devotion yoga 4. Raja yoga (the king yoga- famed and stories such as stopping breathing, leaving body without dying are rampant)
These yogas requires energy and healthy body and mind. So enters Hatha Yoga. I regularly practice Pranayama taught to me by my father.
Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism assumes that you can be one with the universe without believing in any god. That is much discussed in Bhagabad Gita.
Buddha was an athiest. There has always been a strong sect of athiests in India- for thousands years.
They did the same with many other terms like "Buddha", translating it according it according to the meaning, not literally. (That was during the first wave of translations. In the second wave the translators were much more literary, although they praised the pioneers as superior.)
Modern day "Hatha Yoga" traces its origin to the "Natha Yogis"(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nath). It is also quite interesting to note that "Patanjali Ashtanga Yoga" had nothing to do with the above. Due to historical reasons, a subset of the Asanas (with his own modifications) were popularized by T. Krishnamacharya who also used the text "Patanjali Yoga Sutras" as a larger framework within which to seat his practice. This was then exported to the West by his students which has now come to be known as the de-facto Yoga.
Seeing similar claims about the 1800s does not just raise a question whether the 1920s or 1800s story is better. It puts the whole notion of Western invention in doubt -- right along with pre-Buddhist, Buddhist, and post-Buddhist stories.
At this point, I don't know the history of Yoga, and don't believe people who say they know.
I've been going in and out of the subject for the last 10 years or so. Modern yoga practices in my country essentially boil down to either stripped down physical training, or something intentionally very esoteric and built around 'energies' etc.
What I ideally would want to is to discern the actual practices from cultural background. I don't mind learning cultural background as well, but I have a hard time taking certain things for granted.
Maybe there is some modern movements/sources that explain scriptures to a modern man, with focus on practice? What I usually find is way too scientific in the sense of Orientology/Philosophy but not the actual practice
That's what is left from 3 years intensive training. In other words I do what I like, when I like, how I like.
If you want something methodical try Pilates. It's yoga without the cult.
There is also this thing that some scriptures mention things that others don't and sometimes even present conflicting theories throughout the same scripture. Like hatha-yoga prardipika mentions two ways of achieving immortality: one through raising kundalini and another through saving bindu.
Alternatively I'm looking for some guide on what are the main ideas, different schools and techniques developed in yoga, how they relate to each other, what are main concepts and how they evolve in different schools.
tldr: I have a sense that there is something valuable for me, but I want to extract it with minimal costs, i.e. not getting a degree in philosophy or orientology in the process.
My gut feeling is that this won't really work. A lot of these things need to be felt and experienced, not just learnt. There's a metaphore that no matter how much one reads about mangoes and the descriptions of their taste, you can't really know what one tastes like until you eat it. Similarly the experience of yoga or any other somewhat metaphysical thing cannot be fully conveyed textually and intellectually.
On one hand this bothers me as an engineer and a logical person. But on the other hand, when hiring someone we care about years of experience not just book knowledge. This is because the experience, including weird and failure like experience is part of how a person gets "there" in their growth.
I think yoga and religion is much the same, you can't truly get it until you've struggled with the intangible and illusive elements of it and attained some of the feelings.
Personal background: I was every lucky to get involved with some hardcore hatha teachers and ended up doing hatha teacher training a few years ago. The course was as much about the history and philosophy and the experience of yoga as it was about praneyama and asana. Since that time, I became more connected to Judaism (I think yoga opened me up emotionally for that) and drifted further away from yoga as I think they are incompatible in some ways so I am not a great authority. But I do think "not taking the easy way" is pretty central to the whole thing.
A fun acronym:
Bioenergetically Overcoming Death through Yoga; Manual for Immortality, Non-degeneration and Development.
BODYMIND
https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2012/oct/03/straight-yog...
https://jfdeters.wordpress.com/2014/06/18/the-myth-of-yoga/
https://theconversation.com/from-india-with-love-how-yoga-go...
Yoga is a ancient system and like many systems in the orient, it is quite malleable and has been modernized with time. There are many aspects of Yoga and merely reducing it to "certain body poses" and claiming it's Swedish, is cultural appropriation at it's finest.
That's a shift in goalposts from the original post's claim of "common modern Yoga poses" - Yoga practise in the west is only a small portion of modern Yoga in general. There's a difference between saying "common modern English borrows a lot from Hindi grammar" and "modern English spoken in India borrows a lot from Hindi grammar" - and there's as much difference between your statement and the statement the original comment made.
Postural yoga was popularized in India in the 1930s. Hatha yoga had been out of fashion for centuries at that point. Famous teachers like Swami Kuvalayananda, Yogendra and Krishnamacharya revived it and incorporated the standing poses from contemporary gymnastics and, for the first time, movements.
For some, maintaining a connection to the Hatha roots were more important than others. Pattabhi Jois claimed that his Ashtanga yoga (the origin of modern Mysore style in India and Power yoga in the West) was based a 5000 year old sanskrit text that Krishnamacharya had discovered, but unfortunately it was "eaten by ants".
Cultures change over time and the Silk Road is a two-way street. We all learn from each other and that is, for the most part, a good thing.
And Yoga went from an obscure practice of (mostly male) Indian ascetics to a household name the world over (practiced a lot by female lay persons).
I find it a great story, though my initial comment on this thread was down voted. We like marketing here on HN right? This is marketing.
It was actually completely the opposite, the modern yoga practices were actually inspired by colonial rulers as it was time when in Europe it has become very popular and fashionable to exercise. Maharaja Krisharaja Wadiyar IV has hired Tirumalai Krishnamacharya (who btw died in 1989, just 32 years ago) to come up with somethign similar to Swedish gymnastics and Sokol movements in Slavic countries, just based on Indian traditions. It had nothing to do with colonial resistance, it was just a fashionable thing coming from the West, like later jeans or McDonalds or Starbucks (or cross-fit training for that matter)...
Bengali and Punjabi groups of armed revolutionaries (wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anushilan_Samiti) did heavily rely on yoga for exercise. The author is right. You are way off.
This tendency to claim any thing good eastern as western is a very old trope which dates to 18-19th century ideas of superiority of Europeans. I think in the 21st century we should let it go?
Does it not make you a little bit suspicious? What data would you seek out to falsify it? Did you factor in cultural narratives of western superiority into your thought process?
The insistence that sun salutations are a innovation is again bizarre as there are sutras devoted to sun saluations. In many families, children are taught sun salutations by their parents and grandparents as ancestral traditions.
Even if you grant that modern forms of doing Yoga are an innovation inspired by calisthenics, why did that innovation come from European calisthenics when India has dozens of ancient arts like kalaripayattu that are practiced in Calisthenic sequences?
Have you read the two books I cited, or are you speaking from ignorance?
I feel it's pretty racist, like blackface.
Translation: One is kin, the other a stranger say the small minded. The wise know that the world is but a family.
Indian sages were smart enough to also warn of its misuse. Here is a 3 part detailed explanations of the concept and how its meaning is lost. [0] [1] [2]
[0] https://bharatendu.com/2008/08/29/the-hoax-called-vasudhaiva...
[1] https://bharatendu.com/2008/09/12/the-hoax-called-vasudhaiva...
[2] https://bharatendu.com/2008/09/26/the-hoax-called-vasudhaiva...