Windows 10 taskbar is now pushing Microsoft Edge web apps
windowslatest.com
windowslatest.com
* Show suggestions occasionally in Start
* Show suggestions in your timeline
* Suggest ways I can finish setting up my device to get the most out of Windows
* Get tips, tricks and suggestions as you use Windows
* Turn off suggested content in the Settings app
Changing these settings can greatly reduce Windows 10 spam.
The fact that it needs to exist in the first place is itself a bit of an indictment of Windows 10, but running this during the Windows installation process will give you a nice, clean, non-animated desktop and start menu, with all of the shovelware and ads neatly excised and the privacy settings set to sensible values (admittedly for certain values of sensible, given that you can't disable all of the telemetry in most versions):
https://community.spiceworks.com/scripts/show/4378-windows-1...
Windows is essentially "free", as in for most people there is no savings from not using Windows, like it is i.e. if you build your desktop your self.
Linux is compeeting with effectivly mandatory prepaid Windows installs.
You can get your money back if you don't plan on using the license.
Lucky us I guess.
(FTR: Linux is as usual as Mac at work now. I've even seen a team lead and a sales guy run Linux!)
Yeah, and some of us don't. A lot of us, actually. I personally get kinda sick of the arrogance of people who think they're above everyone else because they chose a different operating system.
And reading the article it explicitly says they will only show users this feature if edge is their default browser.
I.e., it shows up for everyone, not just people who aren't using Edge already. They aren't specifically targeting Chrome and Firefox users; they are just also included in the group.
That’s not what it says. It says "even when Microsoft Edge is the default browser".
we don't have to imagine it, this isn't new, this is the Status quo.
And we're all to enrolled/busy/tired to give a shit about it. just make the customizing changes and move on.
We generally pay for services, to avoid ads.
With my PC, I could dual boot, as it's just reassuring that I can fire up my favorite games and they "just work" on whatever the latest Windows OS is I'm running, and the convenience factor is so much higher now that I'm running WSL2 and can do various Linux things, too. But cost-wise, well I've only ever paid for Windows when buying a pre-made system. When building, I've gotten various free versions of Windows over the years, like when I did a "Windows party" for the launch of 7, and they sent me a free copy of Ultimate (which was free to upgrade to 8->8.1->10. But obviously not available in general if you want a Windows license.)
And the cost of time... to fiddle with Linux and try to get all my Blizzard games working, maybe it's not as bad as it is in my head, but it seems like a hassle, and quite often, my spouse and my family members and my friends and I spontaneously want to jump into a game of StarCraft 2 or Valheim or Diablo 3, and I don't want anything causing me to stop what I'm doing and try to troubleshoot it for 2 hours while everyone else plays.
So, I run only Windows, and I put up with the once or twice a year that a new update comes out and potentially introduces some kind of notification or extra Start Menu tile, and I turn that thing off, and then I go on with my life without it. If I could have Linux with a "Windows gaming" channel like Netflix that always just worked for every game I play or will play in the future, I think I'd certainly consider switching to that. But for now, I'm not confident enough that everything I use my PC for would "just work" if I switched, with the same performance and lack of troubleshooting, so I do not do so.
I have even worked on .net core projects with vs code and run SQL server in a docker container.
However, I forgot to mention - FreeRDP is a wonderful tool and it works perfectly for me. If and when I need to use a Windows only tool like SQL Server Profiler, it's easy to RDP over to a Windows machine to do that.
I know lots of people do everything on their one computer, but I just love keeping all the OSes separate so I don't have to deal with the possibility that some interoperability layer is actually causing me issues. And look what you can get for $299 that Linux will run perfectly on after you throw an SSD in there - https://www.amazon.com/HP-EliteDesk-800-Cerfified-Refurbishe... - and you can go even cheaper if you get an i5-4590 or i5-3470 instead. For a laptop, I have an old (2015) Acer Aspire E5 that runs Manjaro perfectly as well.
Here are the instructions to setup the dotnet host and runtime on an Arch based distro (Although, I just use the GUI add/remove software control panel in Manjaro called Pamac) - https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/.NET_Core
If I search for "suggest", click a result, press mouse-back button: It loses my search results. I sent back to a blank index page.
So I have to search "suggest", find my place in the results, click result, back, search again, remember where I am, click, back, search, etc etc.
If you're going to make desktop software "browser-like" then actually commit. Don't add a back button but not have it act like a browser back button. Just obnoxious.
PS - On Windows 20H2/19042.867.
Yes, the command line itself has ads for the store sprinkled throughout it.
Later, when I needed to pull down the Rust compiler, I discovered that the C++ redistributable package, despite not including Visual Studio, helpfully adds an explorer shell link to "Open in Visual Studio" which I suspect is meant to open the Store again, though on my system it appears to do nothing. So that's another ad.
Clearly I'm not the target audience for this kind of stuff, being a Linux administrator and using that as my daily driver, but there's still something inherently creepy about all of this. I don't trust marketers, or the advertising industry at large, and while I understand Microsoft is a business and is necessarily going to engage in some marketing, there's a time and a place. Basic features of my operating system are not it.
Even Android doesn't get that intrusive, not that it's much better.
Funny thing is, this is actually wrong on Windows and always has been. Unless I'm missing something. I recently traced back the earliest python3 installer on the official ftp site of python.org and even that one didn't have a python3 command. No official installers seem to have had it. Nor does an Anaconda install. So I don't really know why the 'official' (that is, the one on the MS store) is pushing python3 as a command (apart from 'other OS do have this'). Anyone has any insight on this?
Yes, the command line itself has ads
Technically it's just an executable in the PATH so anything, including any terminal application, which uses that gets it.
helpfully adds an explorer shell link to "Open in Visual Studio
Care to post the link to that installer? Never saw that, curious to see which one that is.
No clue why the standard non-app store installer doesn't add python3 to the path to mimic this behavior.
Nowadays, I just only install Python3 on machines, so it's not really a problem for me anymore.
The real surprise was mostly that python3.exe isn't included in the 3.9.x download, despite the documentation mentioning it in a few places. Since the error message didn't name drop the executable, and it appeared python was otherwise installed and working (and even available as "python" on PATH) it took some sleuthing to locate the real issue. I'm sure there's a better fix than copying "python.exe" and renaming it "python3.exe" but that worked, and I had stuff to do, so it's fine. :)
> even after installing Python from the official website, if you happen to run a script that executes "python3" instead of "python", you'll instead trigger an unhelpful link to the Microsoft Store
This is no different than macOS. If you don't overwrite the existing stubs, you get the "install xcode" message when running git or cc.
But if Apple does it, it's OK because they're the good guys.
Many users use git from homebrew; once you do 'brew install git', the stub won't bother you, despite homebrew not overwriting anything. It is just earlier in the $PATH. And that's the issue with Windows: the standard installer does create python3.exe, it is just later in the %PATH%, because Microsoft placed the stub in one of the early directories. Normal, well behaved installer, which places its entry at the end won't be able to override anything.
- google can push chrome on people in their search results. and google pushed HARD. So hard they dominate the browser market and chrome is unfortunately not known for privacy.
- google pretty much makes it impossible to get away from chrome entirely in android. Example being that you MUST use chrome webview when using the google search app. Even though everything else uses firefox for me.
- ms doesn't have search results. sure they try with bing but its not nearly as good or widespread. MS does have windows itself though, so they push where they can.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic to MS at the moment. And this is coming from the pitchforks and torches guy against IE6/7/8/9 back in the day.
No, that's not how this works. If it's wrong, stop Google from doing it, instead of letting others do it too.
MS can't wait that long for a maybe sort of kind of. Just being practical here.
Silicon Valley took noticed and now they are the top political “contributors”.
Google figured out that to compete with Microsoft and Apple you have to basically give it away for free. Look no further than Android and Google docs.
I didn't pay Google $200 (Windows 10 Pro retaile I payed for recently) for the privilege to use their search, so they are free to push some advertising alongside it. When I will pay $200 to use their search then I don't want any advertising from Google either.
> - google pretty much makes it impossible to get away from chrome entirely in android. Example being that you MUST use chrome webview when using the google search app. Even though everything else uses firefox for me.
Funny, I have used InBrowser ever since I started using Android 10 years ago (which btw, makes it possible to read all those news articles without running into free article monthly limits because InBrowser doesn't store any state between sessions). Doesn't seem impossible to not use Chrome at all to me.
> - ms doesn't have search results. sure they try with bing but its not nearly as good or widespread. MS does have windows itself though, so they push where they can.
They are free to do whatever they want with their software but I don't find it acceptable to pay $200 for that and still get ads. If they were to give me Windows 10 Pro for free, then sure, go ahead and put a bunch of ads on my desktop.
And still push hard. I use whichever browser is most "native" to the platform I'm using at the moment (Safari on macOS, Edge on Windows, Firefox on Linux) so I see prompts to install Chrome constantly. Very irritating.
Still pushing hard: if I open the gmail app on my iPad and click a link it pretends I need to choose a browser every single time it seems and one if the choices is always Chrome (that I haven't installed and won't install).
I've already been writing relevant authorities here (Norway) twice last year and I'll keep pushing.
The moment they kill competition, that moment ad blocking disappears.
On my Pixel, when I start a search from the home screen, and then click on a result, it opens that page in Firefox.
Edit: I figured it out. I'm not allowed to uninstall Chrome, but disabling it made it finally use Brave as a fallback. So they actually implement using whatever browser you want, but they just ignore it unless it's actually impossible to use Chrome.
However, if you want a non-Mac PC, your choices are slim to none to avoid Windows.
Microsoft a convicted monopolist, DoJ has acted twice already against them. Google isn's there yet.
Advertisements or recommendations in Windows 10 are definitely helping Edge
For example Wikimedia shows Firefox at 12%~ of desktop browser usage whereas W3Counter has it at only 6.1% and StatCounter 7.95%. With the latter two being JavaScript based.
I don't care about the loss of horizontal space most of the time. I have a 16:9 screen and most web pages grow vertically anyway.
As a matter of fact I use a vertical Windows taskbar as well, since it lets me have many applications open while still displaying their window titles. It's not usual for me to have 5 file explorer windows open, and their taskbar buttons won't combine.
I wish vertical tabs were a standard option on all browsers, especially on Firefox where you need userchrome hacking on top of an extension to get something usable — userchrome css is deprecated and going away, which means integration deeper than is offered by extensions will be necessary in the future.
They are promoting the ability to pin websites on the taskbar.
If one really wants to they can dual-boot with windows, but I've found the better option is to just play games that do run well on linux, like tf2, etc.
If you don't like Steam as a launcher then there's also Lutris and GOG.
use LTSC. it only has security updates so you're not forced to constantly decrapify your OS.
I have many apps that do that when a new version is pushed out and they have new features.
That statement implies to me that they are also advertising to people who aren't using Edge.
> the pop-up will appear *even when* Microsoft Edge is the default browser
"Even when" says to me that this scenario is in addition to some other scenario, which must inevitably be when Edge isn't the default browser.
This is how the first sentence should read with correct parenthesization: "It’s worth noting that the pop-up will appear even (when Microsoft Edge is the default browser AND you’ve already pinned sites to the taskbar)"
> "the pop-up will appear even when Microsoft Edge is the default browser... The company is not targeting people who use Google Chrome and Firefox as default browsers."
Translation: it will show up for everyone, not just for Chrome and Firefox users.
The former part seems to imply to me that you get this suggestion even if you've already used the feature.
No. It says that Chrome and Firefox users are not specifically targeted, it says nothing about then not getting the suggestions when they are a part of wider group, like Windows users.
Microsoft charges $100 for Windows 10, virtually every corner of the experience is riddled with advertisements and marketing crap.
Microsoft trying that would absolutely kill the company- either by lawsuit or people getting up in arms over anti-competitive behavior. They make a small amount every few years when you buy a new computer, and hope you'll also pay for their other software (or give them data, which is tantamount to the same thing).
Microsoft, literally, sells Windows 10... for money.
Since they arent getting a massive markup on very well integrated, mediocre hardware, they need to sell more than just Windows. Office, SharePoint, etc are where the real money is at for them.
edit:
To make it clear to people not reading the comment carefully, I'm not saying MacOS is "free". I'm merely saying that once you pay for the computer, the OS is included in the price.
And there is no additional monetization under the form of ads or tracking. Unlike in the Windows world, where you pay for the license, yet you are still being tracked and served ads.
You are misinterpreting the parent's argument by saying "it's pretty fair" then, as they were saying it's unfair to call MacOS "free."
In one case it just also happens to be impossible to avoid being further monetized via ads and tracking.
This, to me, is unacceptable for paid software, as essentially amounts to license fee + adware model.
The comment you replied to was a response to calling MacOS free, and was entirely about that topic. It's not a fair comparison to call MacOS free, that isn't justifying Microsoft's actions though.
Where do I have to click to get those ads?
Probably it was this
https://gist.github.com/matthewjberger/2f4295887d6cb5738fa34...
And anyway, surely that is a game, not an ad?
I'd go as far to say it is adware.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Candy+Crush+Soda+Saga+windows+10+b...
Imagine how nice Windows 10 would be if Microsoft didn't own Bing, Xbox, and Office.
I'm pretty sure I see adverts for all these things on my "advert-free" Macbook.
* Most Apple apps (e.g. Home, Messages, Photos, Maps, Podcasts, FindMy) advertise their integration with other Apple hardware.
* Only pre-installed browser is Safari, and the homepage is apple.com.
They might not be blatant, but I'd highly surprised if the marketing department isn't involved in their placement. They don't, for example, mention any competing products.
Also, there's no obvious reason Apple has to advertise the Apple Music subscription when I open the app to play my own MP3s.
And not macOS, but in iOS they've had a giant row offering an Apple Arcade subscription trial at the top of Settings for a while
Maybe I'm cynical, but if MS is adding ads to the OS that you paid for, then how much worse would it be if they didn't have these other platforms raising money to offset as well. I'm imagining your OS with a desktop that looks like a NASCAR car and driver's suit.
For well over a decade that didn't make OS X free. I 'member when upgrading OS X meant forking $129.
Also the OS isn't free. When you buy an Apple computer, you're also purchasing a license to use macOS on that machine.
Now to say "virtually every corner of the experience" seems like a massive overreach. When you first install Windows, or buy hardware with Windows, you are likely to find some advertisements, i.e. programs pre-installed, and start menu tiles that offer other things they want you to install. And there is this obnoxious taskbar notification, which I abhor! It happens once after a major software update.
That doesn't cover nearly all corners of the Windows experience, though. It's just two items, and you can uninstall or dismiss the notification and it mostly never shows up again (except next time they release a major update.) About 363 days of the year, I will see zero advertisements in my Windows 10 experience from Microsoft.
Now, I'm not saying we give them a pass. We should absolutely be critical of these user hostile moves, but we should describe the experience using accurate terms and phrases.
For all intents and purposes their OS is free - the consumer does not ever need to worry about upgrade costs.
So the OS is basically included in the product (just like a washing machine or a car) and upgrades are free.
However, you most certainly are paying for the OS whenever you buy Apple's overpriced hardware. Perhaps the receipt does not state this fact, but we all know that the only way anyone will get macOS is if someone gives Apple money. So, the people giving Apple money are all paying for macOS... And if you're one of those people, you've paid for macOS.
Saying that you're not paying for the OS is like saying that you're not paying for solar panels when you sign a 15 year deal with some energy company middle-man. It's like saying that you're not paying the full price of a smartphone when you buy it subsidized from the phone carrier. You actually end up paying more for the solar panels and the smart phone in those cases. In this case, you're most likely paying more for the OS as well.
If you want to play games with semantics, anything you want can be true.
I think you'll quickly find out that's not the case if you, for example, start a macOS VPS hosting company that doesn't use Macs or that lends them for shorter time periods than one day.
> Apple's overpriced hardware
This meme needs to die, now more than ever (because of Apple Silicon).
That's not an end-user doing whatever they want, that's a company providing macOS to end-users. End users can do whatever they want.
> Apple's overpriced hardware...This meme needs to die, now more than ever (because of Apple Silicon).
Apple Silicon has nothing to do with overpriced base systems, SSD/RAM upgrades and overpriced accessories. Everybody knows Apple hardware is overpriced.
The fact that you actually get less functionality out of Apple hardware adds to the cost. For instance, I have an old 2012 Mac Pro among many other machines in my home/office. The amount of time, money and effort I had to spend to keep this thing running was ridiculous. I had to buy an RX580 to be able to upgrade it to the latest OS and then I had to spend time researching how to fix their locked down piece of shit UEFI loader so I could boot into a better OS (that would be Manjaro). After that I had to spend hours working around all sorts of little Apple-specific oddities like accessing settings that would be in a BIOS on a better computer.
Apple Silicon adds to the cost too because it's incompatible with everything. Now you can do even less stuff with your Mac, but you can do it really fast!
Any other PC in the house would have just worked. This one looks cool though and it's built like a tank so I spent my time figuring it out.
>This meme needs to die, now more than ever (because of Apple Silicon).
This meme is relevant more than ever with the butterfly keyboards breaking all over the place.
If you're a Microsoft partner or resell there are also options available for ordering for use with Enterprise volume licensing.
And "search with google" keeps pushing you to safari https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17935301/how-to-force-ma...
I don't have win app store / one drive too, removed that on the first day.
Once every x months, I have to install a larger Windows update - which has me click through a bunch of screens AGAIN, having to avoid accepting some kind of ad-pushing nonsense and tracking.
I did it after fresh instal and didn't have to do anything for years.
I agree that sometimes there's that privacy settings screen once a few months
Probably it was this
https://gist.github.com/matthewjberger/2f4295887d6cb5738fa34...
Every corner of my Windows 10 experience is not riddled with advertisements. All I have to do is to remove few built-in partner apps after Windows install which I'm doing every few years.
You're really exaggerating it. I don't like that Microsoft tries to monetize already sold Windows. But it's not that bad. Open web browser with a typical website and you'll have every corner of the experience riddled with advertisements. That's truly embarrassing.
My point here is that it pretends to be neutral and allows Reddit, Fb, and Youtube...But google is nowhere to be found.
I really want to give Linux a shot for daily driver use on a laptop and desktop, and have avoided it thus far because it seems intimidating and potentially tricky to get right (for example I worry about getting security right). Are there any trustworthy guides that introduce newer users to using Linux as a daily driver?
How many people doesn't get updates today because they got sick with the way they were doing windows updates back in the "forced restarted" early days
This bloat culture at microsoft has to stop, please!
All my auto-updates are off. I only update "manually" and one thing for the duration, so that I can isolate any eventual issues.
And Microsoft Updates specifically are banned for at least 6 months. I wasn't affected when it occurred, but I sure as hell won't let them exercise their incompetence of the "update deletes your data, users are our testers in production" kind upon me. (INB4: Yes, I do backup.)
why is it that some people see all this crap, and I'm just sitting here thinking win10 is working perfect and is the best os to date
This entire thread is very humorous.
Personally I have Hackernews/reddit/Youtube/Stackoverflow as taskbar pins.
I still have a Windows 7 machine, but it hasn't been powered up in the last month. Wine 6 on Linux is doing most of what I need in running old Windows software.
Don't even get me started on that ill-starred generation of Windows Server that used the touch-screen influenced Start Screen instead of a Start Menu...