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Comment by Pfhreak | Hacker News Reader

I worked at a FAANG company for a while where a manager would walk in each morning and loudly announce, "Good morning all you motherfuckers."

Professionalism is hardly universal.

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True, and I understand how that can be bothersome for some people. On the other hand, I'd rather have someone that swears like a sailor but is otherwise a decent human being when it comes to the things that really matter (i.e. not imposing undue pressure on you, compassion, treating your fairly even in the context of a frayed relationship (firing, etc)).

To me "professionalism" doesn't mean anything. Just try to be good. Be on time, not because it's professional, but because wasting other people's time is disrespectful.

My problem with "professionalism" is that you can be "professional" by not swearing, wearing a nice suit and never raising your voice - but still being a complete asshole (in particular when the going gets hard). I've met people like that.

I feel like there's hardly any correlation between swearing and "decency" (acting like a good human being). In fact, there might even be a slightly positive correlation, since people will tend to cut you much less slack for such egregious behavior (unless you are at the very top of the chain, I suppose).

There have actually been studies that show a positive link between profanity and honest behaviour/integrity[1]

The study I've linked below is slightly flawed, but it does provide a small nugget of evidence to your anecdote.

[1]: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/sites/gsb/files/publication-pdf...

I agree, professionalism isn't necessarily a mark of someone who is a good work partner. Professionalism doesn't imply compassion at all.

But also, some folks (for reasons that may or may not resonate with others) might not enjoy working in an environment where they are called 'motherfuckers', 'little shits', etc.

I agree, and this kind of insensitivity is specifically harmful to inclusion efforts. It’s not so much that people in underrepresented groups (women, POC, trans, disabled, etc) are necessarily more sensitive to all crass or unprofessional language. But it can foster an environment where people are comfortable saying inappropriate things, uncomfortable being challenged, and have enough power that addressing it is or feels too risky for anyone who finds it hurtful or offensive.

All that said, I think a good balance is

1. Embrace a level of crassness that feels friendly and comfortable for all. In some cases this means very little or no crassness. In most cases it shouldn’t mean anything that would be posted on CollegeHumor or whatever.

2. Clearly set expectations that any such humor is expected to be in good faith, which implies both actively understanding commonly hurtful humor to avoid; and encouraging, embracing and actively addressing feedback when anything is unintentionally hurtful; actively disincentivizing and penalizing bad faith behavior.

All of that said: I personally have no gripe with being called a “fucker” but I’d prefer “motherfucker” not be used in a workplace for pretty much arbitrary reasons. I have no problem at all being called a “little shit” (or any other size of shit). Applying the principles above, if I were starting or growing a group/team/org, on first usage I’d probably invite people to say if it made them feel uncomfortable, or if it would make them uncomfortable had it been said to them. If anyone said so, or even just hesitated, I’d suggest that I’m comfortable with the personal interaction in private but it shouldn’t be a part of public communication for the group or private communication without express consent. And I’d invite anyone who felt that wasn’t being honored to come to me if they weren’t comfortable speaking up.

All of thaaaaat said: my original intent was to end this comment jokingly inviting all of HN to call me a fucker or any size of shit, but I couldn’t think of a way to do it and allow downthread discussion without contradicting my own principles. So if anyone here wants to call me names for fun or just to get your rude fix, my email link is public and a pretty quick set of clicks away: profile > personal site > resume

My fiance worked at Oracle, and her manager routinely offered to "mushroom stamp" paperwork that was submitted for his approval.

LOL! That's a phrase I haven't heard in awhile.

Urgh. That’s immediate dismissal from his post and a brisk escort from the building for gross misconduct in my book.

Flat out disgusting, not to mention illegal.

Well, people talk differently, that's not too bad.

I'm talking about the harassment part here, not professionalism in general.

It became a blanket approval to address anyone on the team as a motherfucker.

Sure, one crass dude is one crass dude. One crass manager sets the tone for the team.

Pretty soon people starting pushing the boundaries on how insulting they could be.

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