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Comment by boring_twenties | Hacker News Reader

I've been using the Internet since 1992-3. Lately I'm feeling more and more like these 7% have the right idea.

I don't think you can generalize the internet to be bad. That's like saying processed food is bad: Yes, we would not have the obesity problems we have now without them, but neither would we have been able to build our civilization as is or be able to be as well nourished as we are.

The direction the net is currently going looks a bit worrying, I definitely agree. But I would not want to miss all the awesome advantages it brings.

This is exactly the same criticism of Luddism. And equally right and wrong.

Processed food became a problem at the same point that the internet did: when we sacrificed everything at the altar of almighty profit.

Two hundred years ago, we processed food to survive the winter, now we do it to make a few extra bucks from each ton of corn and wheat.

This decade is the time to engage in a public discourse about what we want from our devices. Really sit back and think about what makes us happy. Hardware and software design can begin to nudge us toward some healthier, happier ideals. One small example: the incorporation of blue-blocking modes (f.lux, night shift, etc.) for night time usage. Some people love the addition of time limits that ensure they don't use apps too much.

I am optimistic that the best social media sites have yet to be designed--rather than optimizing to squeeze the most engagement, ad dollars, or whatever, I like to imagine algorithms that seek to encourage pro-social behavior, friendliness, happiness, fun, healthy habits. We may discover that Twitter and Facebook are fundamentally incapable of doing these things as well as their future replacement, whatever that may be.

Luckily I don't need to generalize the Internet to be good or bad, I only need to determine whether the good it brings to my life personally outweighs the bad.

I don't have an exact answer to that, but what I do know for sure is that the good has been on a downward trajectory, and the bad on an even steeper upward one, for years. Even if they haven't actually crossed yet, it seems only a matter of time before they will.

I often think of what life would be without using the internet. Observing a electronics sabbath usually on sat, seems like a good idea. Not Jewish but feel that the Rabbis of old were on to something.

Why not just turn off your router? Lightbulbs and refrigerators are surprisingly useful

Lightbulbs and refrigerators don't contain electronics. I mean, modern LED lightbulbs contain some primitive electronics, but basic refrigerators do not.

By "electronics", the GP means consumer electronic devices like computers, televisions, and smartphones.

> Lightbulbs and refrigerators don't contain electronics.

> By "electronics", the GP means consumer electronic devices like computers,

Have you looked at refrigerators lately? "Smart" ones are very common and even the cheapest ones basically all use electronics to control the temperature and the cooling cycle. Nothing sophisticated, yes, but if LEDs count, these definitely do, as well.

That's why I said basic refrigerators, which still have compressors controlled by an analogue thermostat. Like the kind you find in a typical cheap rental apartment. Refrigerators are one of those appliances that really do not benefit much from "smart" technology. And LEDs don't count; that's my point.

Fair enough. When LEDs don't count, though, I think it's kinda hard to draw a line - do radios count? Clocks? Amplifiers? Vacuum tube amplifiers?

But I agree with your general point.

You'll find normal room lights obnoxiously bright and wonder what the hell we're thinking if you try exclusively candles or very, very dim handheld lights/lanterns after sundown for a while (think, medium-bright night lights at the very brightest, and even that's kinda too bright) and entirely avoid glowing screens. Might find the insomnia or night-owl tendencies that're "just how you are" disappear in a hurry, too. Go figure, if it's not actually dark and there's an incredible amount of flashy entertainment on tap it's really hard to sleep like you're supposed to. Wonder why we have problems with that, as a society. Guess we'll need a whole cottage industry of books & magazine articles to mis-explain it.

I've gone weeks with no lights. IMO between the screen backlights and occasional use of a flashlight they're not only unnecessary, they're obnoxious.

I would be such an idiot (in some but not all contexts), highly doubt would learn how to write, let alone basic mathematics, or programming, scientific method would have no meaning in my life, if it not where for the internet.

Computers without the internet were better in someways.

Leaving the internet behind doesn't mean living without technology.

I'm curious to know in what ways you mean.

Before the internet, If you wanted to use computers it was to be crafting, not memeing.

Before the internet bbs boards existed. Calling a board was a different experience.

Playing games on computers didn't require an internet connection. Often you traded disks.

Having no internet opens up the possibilities the computer can do. You start exploring and using more of it.

As someone who dealt with not having internet on a computer before, I’d say it’s pretty limiting these days. You can do stuff but only if you know how to do stuff to begin with. And the software preloaded on some OSes isn’t exactly enough to keep you entertained for eternity.

If you don’t know how to do things then not having internet is pretty limiting. After all, most software out there doesn’t come with robust documentation built in. It’s been all online for a while.

You might be idolizing your younger years when there were quite a few pain points that you’re glossing over. If you don’t like certain parts of the internet then don’t visit them. It’s not like you’re forced to be on social media. It’s clear from people I meet on forums that they don’t go almost anywhere else but that forum...

Only expensive software came with instruction manuals (embedded instructions weren't a thing) but when they did they were leather bound. You really had to figure things out yourself.

Let's say you had a c64. You have no software installed so you have to type in a program or possible load one from a disk. Completely different mindset.

Fast forward years and you have lan doom parties. Everyone goes to a store and plays on a hardwired network.

The internet is great.. there is life outside of it if it disappeared.

No internet means fewer distractions and one can do deep work, but this is not permanent. Internet is good but in moderation, too much of it and it starts consuming us.

I try to do this for the last week of every month. I don't turn off the router because I'm not going to exclude myself from things like Discord with friends, facetime with my Mom, or paying bills with my laptop instead of my phone. But anything non-essential is off limits.

It was certainly hard to keep this up in 2020 though, I pretty much dropped the habit from April to December

Online since '94. My first thought: "Those lucky bastards"

I'm expecting the only thing that'll keep me on it in old age is VR chats with the grandkids or whatever. The rest of it's not worth the money, except that it's de facto required for work and (for the kids) school these days.

Yeah, it got me thinking about this blog post I read a long time ago.

https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/netslum/

That was amusing, but the linked "25,000 word screed sketching the transformation of the Internet from an open network of peers to a locked-down medium for delivering commercial content to passive consumers" [1] was even more interesting. From 2003, no less!

[1] https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/

Yeah, I remember reading this back in high school too! Interesting that he got the concept (loss of anonymity and micropayment) right, but the mechanism wrong. Instead it was all done by selling your data to 3rd parties. IMO much worse even than what the author proposed.

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