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Comment by djoldman | Hacker News Reader

Law professor James Duane: "Don't talk to the police"

I watch this about once a year just to remind myself.

You are required to give your name if asked. You are sometimes required to provide identification if asked in depending on your jurisdiction.

Do not talk to the police, it can never help you.

Actually most states don't have "Stop & ID" laws, but some do. In states without "Stop & ID" laws, you only have to ID yourself when suspected of committing a crime, or suspected that you're about to commit a crime. Not sure how it works outside of the USA.

> Not sure how it works outside of the USA

In France we explain to the children that when there is a problem, they should go to a policeman. Or immediatly enter the nearest shop, go directly to the cashier and explain they are lost.

Not that it worked with mine. I did twice the test when my kids were 6 or 8 and instead of doing what they were happily recitating in the evening, they started to cry their lungs out.

Huh? I'm confused about what the "test" was. (Also, the poster above wasn't saying never ask the police for help, rather you shouldn't answer them if they are questioning you without your lawyer.)

So how do they check if you have a driver license? Or do a routine check for drunk driving? That's not allowed in US?

You are required to have a copy of your driver's license, vehicle registration, and insurance information in your car while driving on public roads in the United States.

I believe you can refuse to present these, but this will result in charges.

You are not required to submit to a drunk driving check (we call them field sobriety checks). A cop will tell you something along the lines of:

"If you don't do X, Y, and Z to prove to me you're not over the legal limit (of blood alcohol), then you aren't going home tonight."

This scares people into submitting to the test and in many cases they are then charged with drunk driving. However, you can refuse to submit to the test. Your license is immediately suspended and the cops will then begin the process of securing a warrant for a test under suspicion of drunk driving. Forcing them to do this however can take long enough that you become under the legal limit by the time their search is conducted thus avoiding a charge of drunk driving.

The reason or this stems from our bill of rights protecting us from the state compelling us to testify against ourselves. This includes providing bodily fluids like breath and blood as well as undergoing potentially incriminating tests like a field sobriety check.

In my country (South America) people (young people) is aware that police couldn't force to do a lot of things, like stop you, etc. However, due to personal and shared experiences, it is really hard to say no to policemen if they stopped you during the night and there is no one around... cases of polices abusing their power are daily so sometimes the best is to cooperate with them...

Two years ago I was driving on vacation in the US with my family (we are French). I was in Paso Robles and wanted to turn left, where my GPS told me to. I took one turn-leftèonly lane too early (the next left was 50 m further down the road).

I had a look around, no cars at all, so I proceeded straight on to the next lane (the French way). I turned in the correct left and I suddenly heard "wow wow wow" and saw flashing blue lights. Shit.

A young policeman approached, had a look inside and started to talk to me rather fast and with a complicated accent. I asked him to please slow down.

He then realized that we are tourists, with a GPS, with two kids in the back - and he said "you are free to go, just be careful" and walked away.

So speaking to the police sometimes makes sense.

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Another case was in France when, on a Sunday afternoon im my small city, on a deserted road, I stopped because an older person decided to cross the street when it was red for them. He .... was .... veeeeee...eeery ... slooooow sowhenhewasdoneIimmediatelystarted.

"wow wow wow", a police car was behind me. They asked me if I knew why they stopped me. To what I said that I do not know, but for sure this is not for speeding or for driving over that guy who crossed the street on his red.

They said that they were behind me, saw me stop on my green light, wait for the light to change to red and then start. They wanted to make sure I was not high or something.

Everyone was smiling, we had a chat and they we all left.

Speaking to the police again makes sense.

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Ah, one more. I am driving to the Charles De Gaulle Paris airport, i got completely lost, it wasbefore a phone was everything but a phone.

It was the middle of the night, I saw a police car stopped next to a roundabout, so I walked to them and knocked on the window. It is a good thing they had a roof because they jumped so high that they could have left the car otherwise.

They actually drove me to the airport.

The power of speech :)

Your experience as an international tourist in a part of the US where the economy depends on tourism, and your experience in France, may differ from the kind of experience that that lawyer was advising people not to get themselves into. US citizens (especially non-white ones) often have nasty experiences with the police. For example, the police in my own city are infamous for electrocuting people in order to extract false confessions.

I'm happy for you that your interactions with police seem to have been positive. I can only speak with regard to police in the U.S., but I suspect that if your skin was a different color you may have a had a different experience during your U.S. traffic stop.

I used to be blase about the idea of talking to the police, but have had some experiences which make me more wary. That said, as a foreigner, especially things like traffic encounters, it usually pays to exaggerate your foreign-ness - they usually can't be bothered with extra paper work.

That video is incredibly American-centric, let's swap some international stories. Mostly for fun :) I know it's anecdata, but I still think that counter examples prove a point.

I once got incredibly lost in Thailand. I was on a long haul bus, without realizing it and I missed my stop. The next stop was 100km away and I realized this after 40km after my own stop.

I asked the bus driver to immediately drop me off on the highway at around 21:00. The sun had already set, the night was pitch black and the only thing lit was the big highway the bus drove on. I followed the highway.

After 30 min. I saw a family of 4 outside. I went to them and said in my best "hints game face" that I was lost and needed to go to a certain place. They were kind enough to listen to me, not understand me one bit and it took us 30 min. to figure out that I was lost. They asked me to step on a moped.

I got on, was driven to the police station, was asked to wait, because they were all having dinner. One hour later, they came out, only spoke Thai (so using hands, feet, Google Translate) and they understood where I needed to go. They pulled up a car, asked me to go inside and they drove me to the location! Only up until this point did I begin to understand how lost I was. I was way in over my head and had no idea.

I have never ever thanked any person as much as I did during that night. The police officers, the family, the random people getting in on my conversations trying to help out. Not only that, the conversations were a lot of fun! They were really playful and warm.

I just wanted to put it out there that there are also good encounters with the police. I've had encounters as well that left a bad taste in my mouth (Dutch police -- also good encounters with them, mostly good), but it simply depends on the situation.

I don't think the above video is suggesting that you never interact with police, or saying ACAB. Rather, if you're being questioned by the police you should always refuse to answer without your lawyer present.

Funny thing, by pure happenstance, I watched this video last night, and others have noted, I try to watch it at least once a year.

As entertaining (and informative) as the professor is, and he really is, I find the follow on talk from the detective with 25 years of experience even more compelling.

He comes across as a really nice guy, someone you could trust, even more than Duane.

And he's sent thousands of people to prison.

Most likely the majority of those people did commit some crime, and perhaps did deserve their convictions. That's not the point.

There's a non-zero chance that a completely innocent person's contact with law enforcement can end up with a false conviction. If you role a 1 on a d20 and fail your 'save vs. law enforcement', even if you're entirely innocent, everybody is best served if you don't talk to them without legal representation.

As an aside, this is a very good video. I found myself watching it a couple of weeks ago, his delivery is very good.

Both the professor as well as the police detective at the latter part of the video. Very informative!

Is there a similar source of advice for the Canadian context?

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