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Comment by nevinera | Hacker News Reader

> has experts worried about who will be ready for first grade in fall 2021

I.. I just don't understand. Kindergarten is babysitting, you don't need be prepared for 1st grade.

That is completely and utterly factually untrue.

It's also tremendously disrespectful to kindergarten teachers who work hard to create an environment where the students learn and develop. It's a harder job than you might think.

You also might be interested it's not just kindergarten that's important, but also pre-K that shows significant and measurable life improvements, hence the current push for universal pre-K.

(Of course I'm referring to in-person kindergarten and pre-K where tons of data exists on this.)

I'm familiar with the difficulty of 'teaching' kindergarten - giving dozens of children an engaging environment at the same time is extremely difficult, and I have a great deal of respect for kindergarten 'teachers'. My wife is employed in a similar role (in a mixed-age setting).

You're conflating 'enabling development' with teaching. One of those things is important at age 5-6, and the other is not - it's difficult to stop children from learning things at that age. There are not 'skills' that need to be imparted before 1st grade, there are behavioral examples that need to be set in a social context.

> That is completely and utterly factually untrue.

You certainly seem certain.. if you study the topic at a bit more length that will go away.

Are you having a bad day or something?

I learned simple reading, basic math, how to read a clock, and various life and social skills in kindergarten. There's certainly a lot of active teaching going on at the kindergarten level, although I can't speak for all schools.

Without kindergarten, I would've been way behind when I entered first grade. There was a presumption of foundational knowledge on day one there.

Perhaps you should speak with your wife and her coworkers more. They do in fact teach factual things in kinder. Last month, my kid was learning about black history and discrimination, for example. They also spend a great deal of time actively developing a baseline level of reading skills.

Sure these are things that a kid that goes to the library will probably already have had exposure to, but the thing is that not all kids are at that level.

> if you study the topic at a bit more length that will go away

I have many years of experience both in teaching and in educational policy and technology across K-12 and higher ed. In this particular case, I don't think I need to study it more but thanks. :)

> There are not 'skills' that need to be imparted before 1st grade

Again, that's false. There are absolutely skills and knowledge related to reading and numbers, for instance, that are explicitly taught and practiced and which determine an expected baseline for entering first grade.

I don't know where you'd get the idea that there aren't concrete educational standards for kindergarten.

This is a relatively recent thing. I didn't learn any of the things that my children had to learn in Kindergarten.

Sure, but that's just as true of most other years of school. The experts don't want to admit that 6th grade is babysitting and they don't want to admit that kindergarten is babysitting either.

This probably is different in different places, but where I'm from, kids do need some prerequisites for 1st grade - e.g. they should be able to read at least somewhat, know the numbers (incl. written), they have to be able to do basic self-care like dress themselves for outdoors, tie their shoes, other basic things, so it is possible that someone isn't ready for first grade if their parents have neglected that and they didn't have preschool.

> ..., kids do need some prerequisites for 1st grade - e.g. ...tie their shoes

Perhaps, to put on their shoes (confidently tell the left from right shoe), say, by slipping onto already tied ones, or velcro-style shoes.

Would not expect kids to master ties till 6-7 yo.

Besides, the modern laces are so damn slippery and thin that they often require double ties to stay fixed.

In the US kids are expected to enter 1st grade with some basic literacy and math skills. If they don't have these at all, they would not necessarily be considered prepared for 1st grade.

Whether this is developmentally or pedagogically appropriate is a different discussion, but's it's the reality in most of the US.

I'm surprised at the push back this has gotten. As the article says, kindergarten isn't mandatory in California. I grew up in California in the 80s and missed half my year of what would have been kindergarten because of a persistent lung infection. It didn't make any difference. I don't have many memories that far back, but all I remember learning to do when I was there was how to spell my name, which I could already do anyway. I'm sure there are some things a teacher can do that a parent can't do, but nothing you learn in kindergarten is among those things.

Not anymore. Kindergarten is now more academically focused to prepare children for 1st grade. This seems to have changed due to No Child Left Behind.

Don't preschool and kindergarten teach vital social skills that can affect how you interact with others for the rest of your life?

Only as an intervention—outcomes are similar with or without for healthy families (using income as proxy.)

Yes, this is referred to as Social-Emotional Learning (SEL) and is a major focus of teaching in PreK and kindergarten.

In the absence of basic parenting, yes - that's an important function the setting serves. But it's not 'preparation for 1st grade', it's minimal damage-mitigation.

In the absence of basic parenting? The child is spending like eight hours away from their parents. Of course it's going to have an impact, parenting present or not.

I'm pretty sure the commentator was talking about the other case, social skills can be learned outside of pre-school and kindergarten - when basic parenting skills are applied.

Pretty much, yeah. If those kids that aren't going to kindergarten have exchanged that time for neglect - sitting in front of a television for an eight hour stretch, for example - then they will certainly be worse off for it. But the article didn't demonstrate or investigate that, it went straight from "less enrollment" to "less prepared", as if kindergarten is the only realistic place to learn such important skills as "basic respect" and "don't hit people".

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