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Comment by collsni | Hacker News Reader

Illegal is a pretty strong word. We need more rights not stipulation on everything we do.

Just realize what you're asking for.

This is a clear case of market incentives getting corrupted and not actually providing any utility. At this point it's not about whether you believe crypto will succeed at any of it's proposed utilities, people are investing because they want to get in on the hype bubble and ride high. And once you're in you have every incentive to prothletise before you cash out.

Meanwhile the rest of us get stuck with externalities - huge energy consumption, hardware supply disruptions, hardware waste, compute hijacking, enabling scammers and extortions schemes.

I don't think crypto should be illegal but the institutions enabling it should

You should read about Accelerationism. You have a left-wing interpretation of Accelerationism (we should create new laws to handle technological divergences) and I have a right-wing interpretation of Accelerationism (as systems becomes more fragile from cryptocurrencies, such as in this example, corporations will be motivated to find cheaper ways to produce electricity, GPUs. Thus I believe that because of increased chaos, "Corporations find a way").

I always thought right wingers where interested in the Sovereignty of the Individual but you are explicitly and consciously pro-corporations? Seems likely to have some bad local maxima without regulation from the Individuals speaking thru a Democratic Government.

I am pro autonomous corporations. I want Manna[0] in reverse so that instead of making fast-food employees listen to an AI, I want to start at the top.

[0]: https://marshallbrain.com/manna1

> I don’t think crypto should be illegal but the institutions enabling it should.

I feel the same about PoN[1]-based currencies! Get rid of the Fed and the military!

[1] Proof of nukes.

Nukes and military actually provide a very real value to population, you're really naive if you think the world would be a better place without them.

World would 100% be a better place without bitcoin.

I think some debate on the political level is very much necessary. From the way use it to the way we manufacture crypto. At the moment it’s not just sustainable (think environment, think speculation and so on)

Crypto / blockchain is great, its current implementation is very much lacking.

It's illegal already to dump toxic waste in your neighbors pond. And just bitcoin does something way WAY worse than this.

I realize what I'm asking for. I'm asking for cryptocurrency speculators to actually pay for the externalities they cause.

Because that's the core of the libertarianism they pretend to support. But of course they don't have libertarian values. The only ideal they stand for is them getting richer by burning everyone else to the ground.

> It's illegal already to dump toxic waste in your neighbors pond. And just bitcoin does something way WAY worse than this.

Why? They pay for electricity like everyone else, excepting cases where they're already breaking laws.

And for the actual topic at hand? And other non-electricity externalities?

There are none, unless you want to stretch the meaning of externalities beyond recognition.

The topic at hand should already be illegal, no? You don't need a cryptocurrency-specific law to cover running code on someone's server without permission.

Electricity usage has major externalities which are not taxed because people would get pissed off. If every country instituted carbon taxes I'd be much more accepting of crypto/proof of work, but we're nowhere close to that happening.

Something like a very hefty tax for fiat/crypto exchanges would probably already solve the whole problem if a ban is the end goal. People would still be able to use it freely for the applications crypto enthusiasts claim it is meant for (like using it as a decentralized currency for payment). But in reality the hype (and with that, its value) would probably crash because it would not longer be as attractive for the money gambling it is actually used for.

Just a thought, I'm probably overlooking something.

Illegal is the appropriate word when you're looking at something that's draining resources (electrical and human) in every major country and providing nothing of value in return. (I've made some nice money from crypto speculating, but that's not making the world better, that's just taking advantage of bigger fools.)

Proof of work systems, which by design compete on wasting resources, need to internationally outlawed.

If people want cryptocurrencies to keep going, they can get a move on finally fucking migrating to these alternatives systems they tell us are just around the corner. If none of the major networks are able to do so, they shouldn't exist.

I think outlawing math is a very bad idea.

If there is a regulatory route towards reducing / eliminating crypto, I would hope that involves restrictions on the fiat / crypto interchange, not restrictions on what kind of math you can do with a computer.

We have rules against speculation because it highly skews towards people already with the necessary resources. 2008 is already a distant memory for some.

Math will never be outlawed, but as it stands now it is just too speculative. I don’t have an answer, but as it stands [cryptocurrency / NFT] we need to have a lively debate on what we want it to be.

> We have rules against speculation.

This is so broad I am not sure which laws you reference. Most of the laws I am aware of talk about how bmuch money you must have to be allowed to speculate.

> Math will never be outlawed,

I wish I shared you certainty. We currently have laws about exporting some types of Math (cryptography) and we have lots politicians interested in placing further restrictions on cryptography.

Countries around the world implemented laws : Dodd-Frank in the US. Banks have tighter rules against speculative activities in general around the world after 2008. It was a mortgage crisis foremost, with lots of speculation. Crypto is kind of the same : you invest and hope to gain a return. It stands to reason you want to curb the damage it can do if (and when) it bombs.

Laws in general should not be unnecessary broad, most countries have that general rule, and while there is certainly another debate to had on privacy and backdoors, it is a different debate. So when a law comes against Crypto, it should be very specific to curb its problems.

> I think outlawing math is a very bad idea.

Not as bad as completely misrepresenting real world problems, it isn't! :-D

We have already "outlawed" physics, chemistry and biology (various crimes involve these) and even communication (fraud and slander). Might as well "outlaw math" as well.

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