BBC: The cost of speaking up against China (Uyghurs)
bbc.com
bbc.com
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26637365
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26630159
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26643703
If you want more, there's 7 years' worth at these links:
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
Mini-FAQ:
Q: But isn't this an important world situation?
A: Sure—more important than most of what's on HN. That doesn't mean that HN's rules stop applying or that flamewar becomes ok. Also, people angrily yelling on the internet has nothing to do with helping oppressed peoples. It is about activated tribal emotion, and in that sense belongs to the problem rather than any step toward solution.
Q: Are you secretly a spy, Chinese agent, communist, astroturfer, racist, or sympathizer thereof?
A: No; see step 4 of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26637365. We're just trying to have an internet forum that doesn't suck. The idea of HN has always [1] been to avoid becoming scorched earth [2] or at least to stave off that fate for a while longer [3]. Scorched earth is not interesting, and threads like these are unfortunately a fast road to hell.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
[2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
[3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
In any case, great work.
Anyone have ideas? What is the solution?
Occurrence of war based on fake allegations isn't rare in our history. We now have enough motivation to have a war against China and human rights isn't one of them. It's all about power and that's why there is so much focus on media about it.
Why nobody talks about KSA/Saudis? We have strong proof for all the terrible things they have done and they are still our dear partner. It's all BS if you ask me. Everything is about power and interest.
Travel to China and see what they are doing. China isn't an utopia, but most of the Chinese are happy about their progress. They complain about lack of freedom of speech but they also celebrate their victory in ending extreme poverty. They also have a lot of respect for western values unlike what politicians are trying to make you believe. It's pretty significant that they have order with a population of over 1.4 billion, most of whom were not educated.
Nazi Concentration camps were called essentially the same euphemisms by the German gov.
i personally have come to see cryptocurrencies as a means to escape this trend; here you have a tool that escapes that big machinery of government - never mind the electricity that is wasted along the way; i think that the altenative of a GULAG is much worse, in terms of trade-offs.
Hungary is usually considered Central Europe, and they're the only ones i can think of besides Poland and Belarus. Maybe Serbia if you're being generous?
That's far from "much of Eastern Europe ( there are 10 countries in the Balkans only).
Russia and Poland are indeed in Eastern Europe ( Russia partially), and Poland is indeed one of the biggest countries (37 million) in that part of Europe, but still has less inhabitants than the Balkans or Ukraine which certainly lack traditional autocratic governments.
I've always wondered, how is it not against the law to act on a foreign government's orders to harass citizens? We know that certain academics are getting arrested, but mainly for spying, IP theft and lying, at least in the US.
But I've never seen reports of arrests made on those grounds. It's a well known fact that "students" will show up at universities to check on other Chinese citizens and dissidents. Yet nothing happens.
Much like the IRS trying to battle the Church of Scientology, they have an army of followers willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause. How do you fight that, other than for the Feds to get involved and start removing these people from the US by the hundreds. It wouldn't surprise me if the Feds just follow & watch on purpose for intel acquisition purposes.
When you consider that until very recently, it was legal for NYPD officers to have sex with people in their custody, and indeed, in many places it is still legal for police to coerce sex from people in their custody, you'll realize that law is reactionary and until it becomes a problem that catches a politician's eye, it won't be illegal.
That has nothing to do with the subject.
The question is why aren't things that should obviously be illegal not actually illegal. I answered that question. However, it seems like some people reflexively support the police so they don't read past the surface.
No it's not.
In the past, it was lumped in with the right of cops to have sex with suspect, thus it was intentional to allow cops to catch sex workers.
Calling it a glitch only shows how little people care about that particular problem and in fact reinforces my argument.
Quick link : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party
They also flag posts to take down from the first page. Just look how many votes do this post have but barely on the first page, about to fall down.
Maybe the HN team could manually do "flag locks" for certain articles that are being brigaded?
Reddit has a "controversial" indicator on posts and comments that can help users identify that this is happening(heavily downvoted, but also heavily upvoted and interacted with).
If you'd like more explanation, there is plenty at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26652363 and the links back from there.
Whereas upvotes and downvotes control the sort order without silencing anyone, reflecting (albeit noisily) the overall community sentiment. Voting based on agreement is a perfectly valid way to use HN, and it seems to be what the majority is doing. (At least judging from the votes on my own comments, where I can see the count.)
If you'd like more explanation, there is plenty at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26652363 and the links back from there.
Edit: we had to warn you about this before (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26549570). Continuing to break the rules like this will get your account banned. (Btw, if you or anyone think I might be posting this because I'm secretly a communist, foreign agent, or $x-sympathizer, please see step 4 of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26637365.)
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
Edit: you've unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines repeatedly and badly—badly enough to ban your account. I'm not going to ban your account for this comment, but please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this going forward.
I'm curious, who were they selling to? The Uyghurs that are being genocided or the Han Chinese doing the genociding?
The western countries are accusing China of fake genocide here, such as suppressing the Uyghur culture, their language, their food, their clothing, even their haircuts.
But yet, H&M is a western brand, that sells jeans and T-shirt, which are western style clothes.
So, if the Uyghurs are buying and wearing H&M clothes, instead of traditional Uyghur clothes, then they are in effect genociding themselves.
So therefore, H&M and the West, are in effect, helping to genocide Uyghur culture.
The funny thing also, is that one of the most famous Chinese actresses right now, is Dilraba Dilmurat, of the Uyghur ethnicity. And she is rising in stardom in the Chinese entertainment world.
So if the Chinese are really trying to genocide the Uyghurs, then I highly doubt they’d let a Uyghur girl rise up too far in their entertainment culture.
Can you imagine the Nazis promoting Jews in their films? That is the analogy here.
Something to think about.
First of all, that's not a fake genocide. Forced cultural assimilation is still considered genocide.
Second, the accusations are far more serious - concentration camps with various human rights abuses. That's in classic genocide territory, going as far as the Herrero and Namaqua one.
> The funny thing also, is that one of the most famous Chinese actresses right now, is Dilraba Dilmurat, of the Uyghur ethnicity. And she is rising in stardom in the Chinese entertainment world.
> So if the Chinese are really trying to genocide the Uyghurs, then I highly doubt they’d let a Uyghur girl rise up too far in their entertainment culture.
> Can you imagine the Nazis promoting Jews in their films? That is the analogy here
The comparison isn't apt, because the Chinese don't claim Uyghurs are enemies of the people or w/e, just that their culture is terrorist. They're doing cultural assimilation, not mass extermination ( mostly). So a culturally assimilated actress is a perfect tool - see, they're not all bad, it's not in their blood/race!
Interesting point of view there. You sure you want to die on this hill?
Ok, let’s take that a step further.
In the Western countries, the United States, Canada, Australia, and Europe, they all force their immigrants to culturally assimilate. They do this by socially shaming the immigrants to adopt local names, and to not speak their own native language.
This is very prevalent in the white countries, where white people scream out: “Why don’t you speak English, and learn our culture!”
And in grade schools, the immigrants are mocked for being foreign.
And what does the government do about this? Nothing. They turn a blind eye. They let society handle the cultural genocide for them. I’m sorry, to use your phrase: the forced cultural assimilation.
This is their technique. And it allows them to have a plausible deniability to the situation.
Hell, even in the western countries, women are banned from wearing their burqas and facial veils.
And then, speaking of concentration camps, then don’t you agree that the United States had their own concentration camps when they arrested all the Japanese and threw them into the American Concentration Camps? This was only 70 years ago, so it’s not very far back in American history.
And furthermore, the United States and the other western countries, have their own techniques of genociding foreign culture. They do this through Hollywood, by casting Asian males as weirdly foreign, incompetent, and ignorant to the western ways. If this is not cultural genocide, per your own definition, then I don’t know what is.
> Hell, even in the western countries, women are banned from wearing their burqas and facial veils.
It's not about assimilation of a foreign culture, it's about an unacceptable practice part of a foreign culture. Similar to genital mutilation which is accepted in some cultures and religions, but really shouldn't be and that's why it's forbidden in some places. You can practice your culture all you want, but you can't show everyone that you treat women like shit because your holy book said so 2 millennia ago.
> And then, speaking of concentration camps, then don’t you agree that the United States had their own concentration camps when they arrested all the Japanese and threw them into the American Concentration Camps? This was only 70 years ago, so it’s not very far back in American history.
There are people as stupid as this? Yes, Japanese internment in the US is the US putting people in concentration camp based on racial profiling, and was terrible, and probably illegal.
> This is very prevalent in the white countries, where white people scream out: “Why don’t you speak English, and learn our culture!”
Yes, white=English, it's obvious how basic your argument is.
> They do this by socially shaming the immigrants to adopt local names, and to not speak their own native language. > And in grade schools, the immigrants are mocked for being foreign.
You can't generalise like this. I'm living in "white" ( i fucking hate using that term, it's useless ) France, and it's really not the case.
> And furthermore, the United States and the other western countries, have their own techniques of genociding foreign culture. They do this through Hollywood, by casting Asian males as weirdly foreign, incompetent, and ignorant to the western ways. If this is not cultural genocide, per your own definition, then I don’t know what is.
Yes, every western country does Hollywood.
This happens by a sub group of Conservative regressive minority of the population. It is not government sanctioned and in most of the countries you mentioned not supported by the majority of the public opinion. These are exceptions not the rule.
> And in grade schools, the immigrants are mocked for being foreign.
You're comparing the behavior of petulant children against government policy of the CPC? Apt, I suppose, if that's the standard you hold them to.
"She accused him of rape, but then the next day had sex with someone she met at a bar. So which is it?"
That is the logical equivalent of your post.
I simply cannot believe that you would not be able to tell the difference being an issue of CONSENT and AGENCY.
H&M is not FORCING anyone to adopt western cultural standards or abandon their heritage.
The CPC is.
Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here.
If you'd like more explanation, there is plenty at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26652363 and the links back from there.