US Is One Step Closer to Having Program to Study Blocking Sun
earther.gizmodo.com
earther.gizmodo.com
Nobody wants to block the sun. But ecological, climate, and humanitarian disaster are inexorably headed our way already. If positive feedbacks seriously kick in, this has a chance of buying us some time until we can reduce carbon levels.
Besides, we've already seen this employed, by volcanoes, with global effects lasting one to two years. Disaster did not ensue.
Kind of like research on deflecting asteroids.
"the U.S. Government and Accountability Office (GAO)"..."estimated that about $2 million were directed to “albedo modification and less conventional CDR approaches,” so less than 0.1% of the U.S. climate change budget focused on the strategies discussed in our report." (page 185 of the report)
> Such a group of sunshades would need to occupy an area of about 3.8 million square kilometers if placed at the L1 point. The deployment of the flyers is an issue that requires reusable rockets. With 100t LEO booster a single launch per day would allow to release the required number of sails within 20 years.
- Harm the only true source of renewable energy we have.
- Waste gazillion of fossil fuel to send that mess in the sky.
- very likely increase space pollution around Earth and be impossible to clean up.
- The only near-term way to do this affordably would be on Starship, and at scale they're planning to fuel that with methane made from ambient CO2, for net-zero emissions
- The L1 point is about a million miles from Earth, so space junk is not an issue at all
- Not going to last any significant amount of time, due to the solar sail effect. Solar wind will simply blow them out of the stable L1 orbit in a few decades at most, maybe a few years
- Let people emit more CO2, because "the problem is solved" in the short term, and when it doesn't work and that 2% of sunlight comes back, it'll exacerbate the problem.
> for the fossil fuel companies and their paid champions, anything is preferable to regulating ExxonMobil, including attempting to regulate the sun. - “This Changes Everything” (Klein, 2014)
This technology is unproven- should it fail to be developed and scale then a sunshade might be on the table.
That said, I agree that blocking the sun should be a last resort.
I think it would be more of an insurance plan to build a spaceship and terraform mars.
A romantic, but completely ludicrous and unrealistic idea. Even the worst case scenarios for climate change leave the earth orders of magnitude more habitable than mars. You think the Earth's biosphere is complicated and therefore dangerous to tweak, yet think the way to insure against this is to literally engineer a new biosphere on a dead world?
It would also be interesting if the article included a cost comparison for this sort of wide-scale heretofore untested geo-engineering against just building more renewable/low-carbon power generation; the latter is fairly proven tech at this point.
> our only true source of renewable energy?!?
These things appear to contradict each other. I also can't understand the logic of "we can't use nuclear power, but please don't stop the rays from nuclear explosions far away from killing us all". If my options are let the sun kill us all, or run a risk of nuclear meltdown here on earth, my vote is firmly in the "block out the sun and run on nuclear power plants" camp.
The ideas mentioned certainly sound plausible, but they also seem potentially catastrophic in their impact. One of the proposed methods sounds similar to cloud seeding, which could enhance our weather control capabilities. I wonder if these methods could be applied to Venus, perhaps, to make it more hospitable.
The creation of any kind of central authority with the power to make truly existential decisions for humanity is an existential threat to humanity. There ought to be a clear and imminent more dangerous such threat before we resort to that. And if we do, an even higher priority will be to put our eggs in multiple baskets, so that the threat is no longer quite existential.
I really don’t want my tax dollars going toward this quack project. I also don’t want Bill Gates involved in any public projects.
I absolutely think the government should be using OSS or literally anything other than MS products.
I also would rather tax Bill Gates than have him directly involved in any public project.
The good thing is that, when it's no longer needed, it can use those same attitude control sails to go towards the Sun-Venus L1 to start cooling down our sister planet.
I have the impression it'll take a long time to get rid of the rotten egg smell, but, if it's cool enough, we can hope to fixate some of the carbon in the atmosphere and cool it even further.
2. Yes
Roughly 74,000 years ago, a "super-eruption" took place in Indonesia, the largest know eruption in the past 100,000 years. The Toba eruption was enormous, throwing out roughly 1000 times as much rock as the 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens (Fig. 1). Dust trapped in polar ice cores shows that ejected material spread around the globe, indicating that the eruption injected substantial material into the stratosphere, where it can strongly affect climate. How much and for how long the Toba eruption actually affected climate and life on the Earth's surface has been the subject of intense debate.
If volcanic activity were to increase, the effect would depend on what kind of increase. Volcanoes do produce CO2, and more CO2 would of course worsen climate change. But they can also produce SO2, which cools the climate rather than warms it. Unlike CO2, SO2 degrades, so the effect isn't as long-lasting.
Volcanoes can also put particulates into the air which block sunlight. Again, the effect is temporary, as the particles fall out. So it would take a permanent, ongoing change in volcanism to counter warming. It would also cause a lot of other climate changes, which are hard to predict.
Of course, we should probably evacuate North America before trying something like that.
And now we are going into futurama teritory - just drop a giant ice cure into the sea - solutions. What could possibly go wrong -_-'
We just can't seem to break free from the power structures of current capitalism.
But yes, It sure does sound like dystopian sci-fi, doesn't it?
I agree that this is a radical move that could have disastrous consequences, but if humanity screws up the climate so bad that we have to resort to orbital mirrors/deflectors to prevent further damage, then it's better to have some of the basic science done in advance. Stuff planned in blind panic once we have screwed up could have even worse consequences.
The downside is that we now may have an actual plan B and that people might not take plan A seriously anymore.
You're not worried enough about this. If you think religious people being religious is scary, wait until the non-religious people take a turn.
Consume moderate amounts?
First, global north capitalist governments and firms force India (and other global south countries) to make their clothes, [1] their iPhones, [2] and more [3], for peanuts. Then they go and fuck up their food security. What a marvellous system.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaGp5_Sfbss&t=31s
[2] https://www.thetricontinental.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09...
[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7iv1fef6qo, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkV-eeXrlUg
Either of those large scale projects is still well beyond our ability, but should be within reach in a century or so, if we manage to successfully insustrialize the Moon.
100T launch every day for 20 years is a lotta launches.
So 100T of moon is not hard to come up with. I wonder if the shade can basically be a really thin sheet of aluminum foil.
How aluminum foil is made (on earth) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LolDAOxdLxk
I was thinking about this before, I was wondering if you could heat a ball of metal on a shaft and then spin the shaft so that the ball pancakes out and the rotational force pulls the sheet into an extremely flat disk. Manufacturing in low g could enable entirely different construction techniques.
Maybe something like https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092442472...
Metallurgy on the Moon will be very interesting - there is the low gravity and the vacuum to play with.