Red Hat Suspends Funding to the Free Software Foundation
sdtimes.com
sdtimes.com
Already one board member has resigned over this. It's completely wrong to be running the FSF like your own private fan club instead of what it's supposed to be: a foundation for all of us, to defend software freedom for all of us. It should not be RMS headquarters.
He wants to keep blogging about how harmless it is to have sex with teenage girls, he can keep doing that. He doesn't have to be in the board of the FSF to do it.
He hasn't done this since 2006 and has since published that he no longer stands behind the statement. Do we want to live in a world where a single incorrect thought made decades ago will forever tarnish your ability to participate in society?
edit: I seem to lost the ability to reply to your other statements.
Is he actually trying to make himself a better person? Other people have listed where he has made several statements over the years since 2006 that show that he hasn't changed what he thinks. Just because he was a pioneer in programming and created the idea of free software does not give him free pass the rest of his life.
Does this not go against the desire to help people come back from previous mistakes?
https://web.archive.org/web/20161107050933/https://www.stall...
https://web.archive.org/web/20170202025227/https://www.stall...
https://web.archive.org/web/20170224174306/https://www.stall...
https://web.archive.org/web/20170612074722/http://stallman.o...
https://web.archive.org/web/20170616044924/https://www.stall...
https://web.archive.org/web/20171020041022/http://stallman.o...
https://web.archive.org/web/20180131020215/https://stallman....
https://web.archive.org/web/20180104112431/https://www.stall...
https://web.archive.org/web/20180509120046/https://stallman....
https://web.archive.org/web/20180911075211/https://www.stall...
https://web.archive.org/web/20180911075211/https://www.stall...
https://web.archive.org/web/20180924231708/https://stallman....
https://web.archive.org/web/20180919100154/https://stallman....
https://web.archive.org/web/20181113161736/https://www.stall...
https://web.archive.org/web/20190325024048/https://stallman....
https://www.stallman.org/archives/2019-may-aug.html#11_June_...
https://web.archive.org/web/20190801201704/https://stallman....
https://web.archive.org/web/20190801201704/https://stallman....
https://web.archive.org/web/20190903050208/https://stallman....
https://web.archive.org/web/20191011023557/https://stallman....
https://web.archive.org/web/20180924231708/https://stallman....
> has since published that he no longer stands behind the statement
This is true, but he's got plenty of other statements he still stands behind. I'm not sure he's said anything about how we shouldn't have sex with animals either.
I say this as someone with some sympathy for at least some of the things he has said in your copious list; my reluctance to specify which things indicates a problem with public discourse today, I feel. (Although even if I did not feel uncomfortable, I also would not want to sidetrack this thread into a political debate)
Emphasis on "single".
If this was true I would agree with you. He has since apologized for that. However, it was not only one stance and that's what prompted his "resignation"
He was trying to split hairs in what constitutes assault just because he wanted to defend a colleague.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/17/20870050/richard-stallman...
[1]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/09/richard-stallman...
Turns out people don't want to do business with you when you make comments like that.
Doesn't matter how much cool software you wrote. Or how much you donate. After a certain point people would rather not be involved with your behavior if it doesn't align.
Fortunately in this specific instance we see society taking SA and r**, as serious topics.
Let's hope we have more of this. Maybe one day I'll finally meet a female colleague in the tech industry who _doesn't_ have a harrassment story to share.
That's very different from saying she was entirely willing. Taking words out of context to change what someone said is bad, right? Perhaps you should be outraged at Vice.
FIFY
I find it weird that Michael Jackson is on the radio so often and Chris Brown is still releasing new music and selling out, yet if they were behind a keyboard rather than microphone, they would have been cancelled long ago
It seems Some of us do want to live in that world. For those who are fascinated about that, please google Culture Revolution in China from 1966 until 1976. You could learn so much about how to destroy those who had made a mistake in their lives (BTW, don't worry, if they don't have made any mistake yet, you could found some or make up some for them), and also along the way, destroy yourself.
He's done it at least as recently as 2012 (and I think he did it later than that in a side comment reacting to a political issue that some adovocates on one side had equated with pedophilia to underline how bad it was, but I can't find the quote at the moment), and didn't recant on the issue until 2019, during the furor that led to him leaving his FSF role.
[1] https://stallman.org/archives/2012-nov-feb.html#04_January_2...
[2] https://www.stallman.org/archives/2006-may-aug.html#05%20Jun...
Absolutely. Unless the refusal is about several legally-protected categories.
> Can we distinguish between differences of opinion and abhorrent opinions?
Some people can, some people can't.
The trouble with Stallman is that as far as I can tell he's just barely tolerated by pretty much everybody who had to interact with him in person. Yes, he did a very good thing, and that contribution should be recognized. And he's got some great ideas that I can agree with on the subject of software.
But unfortunately he's just not a good leader, whether in the area of the FSF's agenda or even software development and at this point is an active detriment to his own cause.
Yes, I'll grant that he's been unfairly criticized for some things, but even ignoring all that doesn't make him a good choice for the position.
Funny it's the opposite with US-Presidents.
https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hat-statement-about-richa...
on edit: Links.
RMS Open Letter (121 pts, 131 comments, flagged) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26558348
Red Hat statement (81 pts, 76 comments, flagged) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585378
/Reverse/ open letter in support of RMS (80 pts, 102 comments, flagged) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26585378 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26565107
OSI response (25 pts, 13 comments, flagged) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26559049
- Everyone should be allowed to find work, regardless of their personal beliefs and past conduct.
- Red Hat is free to spend their money however they want.
- One still should look down on Red Hat for their misguided decision.
Edit: user geofft pointed out that
> membership on the board of the FSF is not a compensated role. He wasn't hired for anything.
Which changes my position to being pretty neutral on the matter. The FSF can do whatever they want and so can Red Hat, I suppose both know what's best for them better than I do.
You are correct - because nobody is entitled to any specific job. In a functioning society the most competent person that will perform the work for a reasonable compensation is hired.
Presumably RMS fits the bill.
People somehow assume that "president of the FSF" is a position of power and influence, which i presume to be a ridiculous claim.
So was chairmanship of the free software foundation the only available job in the world?
Stallman is already a 10-millionaire and bordering on 70 years old. He can retire and let somebody who isn't a pedophilia apologist run the FSF.
I am saying that things like personal belief shouldn't factor into the hiring decision at all. Leave those at the door.
There may be some beliefs that are relevant to the job, so they are not personal. Though you could in theory work for an organization even if you don't believe in its goals - a lot of software developers working for certain companies would probably like to claim this defense.
What exactly "Epstein apologia" do you mean?
He was taking a literalist stance, and he did change his mind. Maybe. Not sure.
Hostile stance to women is also wrong, he's not approving of feminist "pink programming" attempts. Totally not the same thing. Can be found as well in the depths of the internet. Mostly mailing lists.
However he had some seriously hot takes on #MeToo. Taken as a whole, this points to reactionary antifeminism.
People are quick to misjudge, misattribute and bandwagon these days. This causes spillover hurting free software movement. Because every activist must be an angel and every platform squeaky clean.
He made no apologoes for Epstein or any behavior or mistreatment of women. He merely pointed out no one had any business saying Minsky sexually assaulted anyone until proof positive rolled in.
So basically you admit you can't provide any proof of "Epstein apologia." It's actually quite sad educated people fall for media headlines and are not interested in the truth. The truth is important, we must not ignore it.
can you cite anything or is this just some made up stuff to check the boxes of your feindbild list?
The only thing i can find is the §990 tax exemption forms of the FSF, which state that the position pays a whopping zero dollars.
There is little chance RMS could get a job anywhere now. The FSF is basically the only place he could go.
It would be illegal for an employer to do that in my country. Though it's unlikely they could even find out.
You can't just go and ask the police or courts for someone's criminal past here, and newspapers don't use convict's full names.
Once you have served your sentence and paid your fines, you're supposed to be free of it.
I don't know for a fact, but I would imagine it is similar in a lot of places. The US are likely an outlier.
I should add that there are obvious exceptions, like if you are going to work with children or you will be handling a lot of money, in which case your employer is allowed to ask you for relevant criminal record - which you can only obtain yourself and in person.
If these people really are too dangerous to be around others at work, why are we letting them out in the public to begin with?
Also, the FSF staff unionized in 2004 to protect themselves from RMS [1] [2], and the only concrete action the FSF has taken since Saturday [3] - presumably because of union pressure - is to elect a union-chosen member to the board. I believe that the staff of the FSF should also be allowed to find work, and if the staff is effectively saying (and has been saying for almost 20 years), we cannot do our jobs because of this guy, then we get into a much harder problem than can be addressed by the simple principle that everyone should be allowed to find work (a principle I agree with in the abstract).
[1] https://twitter.com/paulnivin/status/1374532930400227328
[2] https://twitter.com/NovalisDMT/status/1172573166956437505
[3] https://www.fsf.org/news/update-on-work-to-improve-governanc...
That changes my view on the matter. Strike point 3.
I honestly don't care for the matter in this case. Both FSF and Red Hat ought to know what's best for them.
I'd like to think that some sufficient change of behaviors, and a sort of reconciliation with those hurt or alienated, could happen. FWIW, although RMS is incredibly tenacious when he thinks he's right, in the past I've seen him change his opinion when an argument manages to persuade him. Perhaps there are some people who are intellectually up to finding arguments that persuade RMS, and who are willing to reach out to him, and invest in difficult conversations. We should be able to have dialogue, to understand, to change, to reconcile. This could be a very positive next chapter in a noteworthy history, as well as a timely example (given some current divisions in the US) that noble ideals we held about dialogue can still sometimes work.
Until that dream happens, at the moment, it seems like the current situation will cause further damage to libre software goals.
Red Hat does abide by the letter by the GPL by releasing source as legally required, but in a form that's inconvenient to work with: https://lwn.net/Articles/430098/
Apparently you could access the individual patches through your Red Hat subscription, but the conditions of the subscription prohibited you from sharing them. https://lwn.net/Articles/430132/ (see pzb's comment).
Red Hat/IBM is (presumably) doing what they believe will lead to continued commercial success in our current environment, I'm OK with that. But I don't really consider their condemnation of the FSF as anything of note beyond the loss of a donation.
If they really want to show they are serious why not remove all GNU software from their distro.
An RMS free ethical Linux distro would that not say far more than cutting a bit of funding.
I personally feel that Stallman would be considered toxic by today's standards of behaviour and is overall a liability to the Free Software movement (which itself is mostly irrelevant today for the average Software Developer or end user).
Despite this I find myself extremely appalled by the overall discourse by those pushing for the FSF board's resignation. A common theme among the complaints seem to be that someone in a leadership position should be held to higher standards but I am seeing many among those who have signed the rms-open-letter along with other supporters who seem to be prominent in the Software community engaging in extremely toxic rhetoric (on Social media) towards any disagreement with their opinion such as calls for firing/not hiring those who may have different opinions, accusations of pedophilia, misogyny, transphobia and other prejudice.
Supporters who say they just want Stallman out of leadership positions seem happy to like/amplify the above positions.
I gave the linked snippets (and a bit more) on Stallman's websites a read. Stallman seems like a man completely out of touch with the state of things today especially those related to morality. But it seems to be a stretch to attribute deliberate malice.
Hey RedHat, did you take the chance of the above event with some people from the US Govt. in 2019 to say a word of two about that guy who has been heard and recorded saying about women "I can do anything to them", "I can grab them by the pussy", etc? Did you stop funding the US government as well?
What a wonderful example of double standard.
None of this should be surprising or cause any kind of alarm.
They have already taken hostage a lot of things in the open source communities thanks to they huge financial power; and now they are also trying to take hostage the Free Software Foundation...
I hope that the US tax authorities will go after them for any deduction they could have benefited following their donations, because of the rude difference between the gift of donation, and giving money to buy something.
I'm not sure if I would personally support RMS or not, but it is the duty of the FSF board to take this decision without being blackmailed by some corporation.
In other projects the presence of paid RedHat developers is a net negative due to their overbearing and controlling behavior.
The latter would be somewhat excusable if their contributions were stellar, but they aren't.