Study finds walking improves creativity (2014) | Hacker News Reader

Study finds walking improves creativity (2014)

news.stanford.edu

249 pointsCynicusRex72 comments

Relatedly, I’ve tried to reduce my habit of listening to podcasts on long walks. I didn’t realize (until way too late) that this habit was stealing creative time from my brain. Podcasts flip my brain into “passive media consumer” mode during what were otherwise my most intellectually creative minutes and hours, and nonfiction/business/tech podcasts also fool my ego into thinking that the podcast listening time is “productive”, to boot.

I also noticed this since my commute time dropped to zero because of the pandemic. I’m now motivate myself to go for a walk (alone) few times a week.

I have the opposite problem where I get into a creative thinking mode and tune out the podcast Sometimes I'll stop a podcast during a walk and switch to music if I actually want to focus on it at a later time (many podcasts I listen to are kind of background noise for me though)

Glad that you got out of it! I am baffled by the amount of people people walking/running around with headphones, blasting music (or something else), never made any sense to me.

I'd rather consume distracting/stimulating stuff within the comforts of white walls while leaving the mother nature surroundings to consumption with open eyes.

I do think the right music can sometimes enhance a walk

It does and often that mother nature sound is just traffic around it. Not really mother nature sound one might want.

I guess that depends on where you walk.

In mother nature's embrace, I prefer to walk with my senses open. Especially when I was in Virginia, I love walking on the trails. I could hear birds and insects, see trees and grasses, and sniff the fresh hearty aroma of the luxuriant ecosystem. It was pleasant to open up myself to the nature.

Now that I live in a city, during my jog, I see vehicles, hear engines and leaf blowers, and smell gasoline, pot, and alcohol. No thanks. I'd rather escape to 18 century music, so I can forget about the grim reality for 40 minutes.

Cities are different. Copenhagen for example is the opposite of what you describe. I’ve walked miles and miles in Copenhagen. My head tilted just a little to also see what is above the shop fronts. A lot of beautiful architecture. Very inspiring. For a period I lived near a very large cemetery. Many many peaceful walks there. Not a living soul there to disturb your creativity.

I used to feel similar about a city I lived in for quite a time. In winter it was super depressing. Imagine communist architecture everywhere, short winter days, often foggy. I got maniac about zen meditation stuff and I decided that I will try to be aware to surroundings to the best I can when I walk and the change was mindblowing. I really started to appreciate the walks in what once was a very depressing landscape, the picture got much more clear and vivid. So much stuff happenning, I enjoyed "tuning to the beat of the city". I also started to notice whatever little pieces of nature were left, like birds signing or naked trees here and there (in winter). Suddenly a walk in a busy city centre could be just as refreshing as a walk in the forest. Maybe even more refreshing (to me). I have noticed that in peaceful places I have more tendency to get stuck in my head, while in busy places, it's easier to focus outward and observe.

That also depends on the people. I, for example, have ADD and music helps me get in the zone, because it's just enough distraction to ignore other noise. I listen to a lot of music or endel while working.

Familiar music can be really invigorating for a creative thought walk. In my own personal experience it can help me tune out other distracting stimuli, like people places and things.

I listen to tech podcasts while walking and often think about how to connect technology to my business issues. I find it to be a creative exercise that has paid off in my career in solving problems.

The Top Idea in Your Mind http://www.paulgraham.com/top.html

Woow. There's a study proving it. Walking is the best option to me whenever I have to do something new. I keep thinking about it to get a better solution. I will be able to think about it without much distraction.

Most people do their thinking on the pot... or at least they used to, before cell phones.

Partly for this reason, I've been considering starting an open source project to make a mobile-first Web based app/website development environment. That way, whenever I realise I'm distractedly using my phone (not just on the loo!) I can flip over to a different website and get back to figuring out whatever code has got me stumped recently :)

mobile phones are huge distraction for everyone nowadays. I used to carry it everywhere (even for loo) and take more time than usual to complete that task. If there's a product to make people less distracted, then it will be of great use

Thinking fast when on the spot

Thinking slow when on the pot

Interesting, I was never able to motivate myself to do much walking until I started putting podcasts on. With them though it's become a daily habit.

Interesting to see this confirmed by a study. As a writer, I've always found walks to be immensely helpful when plotting. A brisk 30-min walk is usually enough to solve any tricky plot-holes I run into.

Running has a similar, but immensely stronger, effect. Generally, I have near constant dialogue between my characters going on in the back of my head. When I run, it simply engulfs my mind, making it hard to concentrate on anything else. I cannot have "jogging buddies" for this reason. It's simply too difficult to listen/react to them when I have an overwhelming stream of imaginary conversation filling my skull.

I've solved plenty of nagging problems e.g., what missing from this code?) 20 to 30 mins into a 60 min run. The rhythm and the disconnect gives my mind just enough space to step back, rethink, and then solve.

Btw, the book "Your Brain at Work" by David Rock is worth a read if reading is your thing.

https://davidrock.net/books/

That looks like an interesting read for sure! Thanks for the link.

>Running has a similar, but immensely stronger, effect. Generally, I have near constant dialogue between my characters going on in the back of my head. When I run, it simply engulfs my mind, making it hard to concentrate on anything else. I cannot have "jogging buddies" for this reason. It's simply too difficult to listen/react to them when I have an overwhelming stream of imaginary conversation filling my skull.

I found the opposite effect for myself. While walking and basic physical exercise tends to improve my ability to tackle problems more creatively, running or high intensity exercise gets me in a survival mode where I can't think about complex and abstract problems deeply. Was a downside because I always wished I could multitask on 40-60 minute runs, killing two birds with one stone. Instead I can't get anything done but an intense cardio exercise.

you're multitasking on the runs - one of the tasks is giving the critical reasoning part of the brain a break!

Very interesting. Cortisol is a creativity killer for most people, so I guess it makes sense that cardio reduces your creativity.

I'm extremely curious why cardio can trigger such vastly different brain responses. My guess is that it has something to do with different hormone responses in different people, but I'll be following the science eagerly on this one.

Try to lower the intensity and run slower. I can pump out 7:30 min/miles when in "go" mode. Thinking mode is 9 min/miles.

I have jogging buddies sometimes but we don't talk when we are running, so that could be an option?

If you can think about work while running, you're jogging at best. Every plateau I hit with my running is the result of distraction and is broken through by being present, focusing on form and deliberately running. I've gained weight and haven't realized the full benefits of exercise because I've thought about work. It's at odds with achieving healthful living..

For me, those sorts of intense bursts of creativity aren't "thinking about work." It's an unconscious rush of thought that I couldn't hold back if I tried. It's basically a natural high, and I find it extremely refreshing and mentally healthy.

My experience agrees with your first statement, but more in the sense that really good thinking was possible when I was at a pace I felt confident I could maintain for an hour or two without being overly tired afterwards. Of course that pace increased over time and eventually my 'jog' pace was faster than my starting 'run' pace.

If curious, past threads:

Stanford study finds walking improves creativity (2014) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9718190 - June 2015 (83 comments)

Stanford study finds walking improves creativity - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7669818 - April 2014 (89 comments)

> One possible future research issue: Is it walking per se or do other forms of mild physical activity have similar elevating effects?

I've always found that aimlessly driving around in a car improves my creativity (much the same as walking, if not more). Yet driving means you're sitting, and I wouldn't say driving involves much more physical activity than typing and moving a mouse.

Strange.

Maybe driving similarly engaged your sense of navigating the external world?

(I have no personal experience of the effect you describe.)

I think it's more likely to relate to "mindless" activities than anything else. I experience something similar when driving a familiar route or when doing stationary monotonous activities such as washing dishes. But driving somewhere novel puts all my attention back to driving.

Driving does the same for me.

I'm paraphrasing here, but I've seen a neuroscientist say that some people think better when their mind is slightly engaged. So driving around engages your mind just enough that you can go into a more flow-like state.

I've probably butchered this explanation, but go watch Lex Fridman's first interview with Andrew Huberman if you want to see him explain it properly.

I don't know about creativity, but walking definitely helps me think. Whenever I start thinking about something real hard, I naturally stand up and start walking around the room. It helps me tremendously.

Yes, same! Only way I can have phone calls as well. And I just love walking relatively aimlessly somewhere. Guess I'm just not a city person, wanting to zoom around fast with headphones on listeneing to [whatever] all the way to destination B where you consider the task finished. I would argue that creativity comes into place any time you allow yourself the breathing room.

Then again you can probably get distracted from your mental blockers as well which can be alleviated by techno (or other forms of (repetitive?) music) to the point of "breaking through" so I can understand the reason people do it.

> “Many people anecdotally claim they do their best thinking when walking. We finally may be taking a step, or two, toward discovering why,”

Uh... there is literally nothing in this summary that suggests anything at all about why, is there? What are the steps or two?

I know we can all make guesses and have pet theories, not asking for that here!

Just annoyed at the scientists who seem to be over-reaching/over-promissing what their research reveals. It seems to be a step (probably not two) towards verifying that what many people intuitively believed is in fact a wide-spread phenomenon, that walking improves creativity. It seems to be zero steps toward discovering why.

Am I missing something?

Welcome to psychology research. One of my most controversial opinions is that this field is moot. The subjects are most often either college students or Mechanical Turk workers, usually white and American but that doesn't stop the researchers from haphazardly generalizing their conclusions to the entire human population.

Plus the field suffers from a replicability issue that Feynman complained about back in his day.

Sure you might say, other fields suffer from similar criticisms but for those fields you can immediately tell what hypothesis they are making and how you can challenge them whereas with psychology there is no telling which characteristics of the subjects yielded the observed results.

I think they just wanted to stick a pun in there.

omg i actually didn't even notice the pun.

That doesn't make me happier with their science-ing though.

Not only walking improves creativity it boosts your memory and brain power. [https://www.facebook.com/ScienceNaturePage/videos/1947581662...]. Undoubtedly, should be close to nature. There has been number of evidences, the closer you stay around nature and physically active more chances you stay fit and healthier.

>the closer you stay around nature

Basically the further away you are from things that can distract your mind.

What helped me greatly was a little piece of paper (moleskin) and a pen. In theory i could not all things in my smartphone. But the lure of the paper as a sketch material for ideas is unbroken. Just have it with you wherever you go and that paper fills itself. Do not write whole essays, just single words if needed, just to anchor your "interest" in a thought direction.

Curious not to find a mention of the peripatetics.

Now I gotta get off this chair. Stop reading hacker news and go for a walk.

Thanks. :)

I am 8 years an addict to HIIT via Les Mills Bodypump. High rep low weight. Some of my best thinking is when I “time travel” through an uncomfortable 5-min track by thinking about one particular tech/bug/architecture decision. Being immersed in thought means my workout is done before I know it.

I’m not sure how I can do this sometimes but can’t 1) talk to my spouse while doing these exercises or, 2) listen to podcasts. It isn’t something I can force. It’s almost like a hypnosis.

I believe this. When I'm working on something programming related I take frequent breaks to pace or walk around a little. Picked up the habit from my first dev related job, where my boss, prick though he was, didn't give a shit if you took a smoke break every 15 minutes. I no longer smoke but I still take breaks any time I feel like I'm zoning out and walk around a little, it helps a lot.

Counter-point to valid point: exercise can go by more quickly if you're interested in a podcast. And when I'm done exercising, I may not want the podcast on, so I can then focus on work. Just as certain kind of music can be on when, say, you're writing code, a good podcast can keep me in a groove.

(And some days, I listen to music when I work out.)

I find that walking makes me more creative because its so boring. My mind starts to wander and try and entertain itself. Its nice to get out and enjoy nature, but on the whole I find that walking is mentally beneficial because it reduces stimulus and allows my mind to explore ideas.

I think this is the mechanism behind the shower effect too.

Anything mindless, when I’m stuck on a problem I often go and wash the dishes.

When I'm in the kitchen I'll put on cable news, which is also mindless but of a different type. I should try doing it in silence.

I think its related to body being a distraction all the time for the mind. The action of walking, riding a bicycle or just keeping your hands busy with sufficiently automated work, keeps your mind free of the bodily distractions, since body is already busy.

Exercise boosts brain power https://vimeo.com/16335377 by brainrules.net

A funny 3.5min clip that explains why we produce BDNF during exercise and how we can enhance our brain power. Highly recommended :-)

A walk or a run is precisely what I recommend to my design students. Proponents of this strategy include George Turing, the philosopher Jeremy Bentham, the writer Jonathan Swift and the artist Joan Mirò.

Ref: Currey, M. 2013, Daily Rituals: How Artists Work, Knopf.

Beethoven found that out back in the 1790s.

At the T.J. Watson research center (headquarters of IBM Research which I had only a few occasions to visit), a number of my colleagues would always go for a stroll on the attractive grounds after lunch, and my favorite professor in grad school did the same thing.

When I was younger I was amoung a group of engineers that would go running during our lunch hour—though it was so hot in Texas during the summer that most of my thinking was about whether I was going to survive.

I don't think it's the walking, I think it's the enforced solitude.

Here in South Africa, under the glorious rule of the ANC (*spits) we have frequent blackouts. I've found that most of the best creative ideas I've had were during the blackouts.

Related: between 2009 and 2016 I made a 600km trip twice a month to see my son. Many of the best creative ideas I've had came out of those trips.

Never thought that the environment would have less impact, always feel more inspired in quieter and more visual environments, wonder if it is offset by me being distracted by the surroundings perhaps.

Also knew this joke would be in there "The study’s strong findings will have legs"

Riding bikes helps me think:

https://journal.dedasys.com/2015/04/20/the-bicycle-a-thinkin...

One of my favourite professors at GSB was Baba Shiv.

He was quite generous with his time.

But the only catch was you had to walk and talk, usually to the dish.

Personally, I’ve shifted from running to rucking(walking with weighted pack) and I often write myself notes while walking now.

I wish they would have also tested running (unless I missed it). Is there a benefit (with respect to thinking/creativity) to walking over running? I think that would be quite interesting...

As someone who tends to walk a lot (often, alone), most of the ideas I get (and solutions for problems) come up while walking. That's why I like to say "walking is thinking".

Many a times, I start walking when I've to think something challenging, which my brain is otherwise trying to avoid by distracting into something else, so am not surprised.

N=48; are there similar studies with larger N?

"All great thoughts are conceived while walking"

Doing nothing does something?

To build something new, first clean your working place.

I wonder if pacing while on the phone is related.

How about helping me lose weight.

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