Posture: Is the Pandemic Breaking Our Backs? | Hacker News Reader

Posture: Is the Pandemic Breaking Our Backs?

newyorker.com

70 pointsfortran7767 comments

Having dealt with RSI and having worked at home for a long time, my list of tips that helped the most. Ordered for importance to me personally rather than cost or other factors:

* Sit stand desk. Not just for standing: lets you adjust height while seated to ideal level

* Placing keyboard/monitor at proper ergonomic heights to one another. This implies arranging keyboard height then having a separate monitor raised up, not a laptop

* Armaid and theracane. Two wonderful and cheap self care tools for tight muscles. Armaid works the arms, theracane all over but I use it for trapezius

* Handshoe mouse. By far the most comfortable and ergonomic mouse I ever used. Once I got this my remaining troubles vanished

* Trigger point massage. Works out small trigger points and knots that can cause referred pain

* Good physio, especially one trained in muscle activation technique (MAT)

* Herman Miller chair. This seems to help, but basically any chair you are comfortable in is the key point.

DO NOT just work through the pain. It compounds and takes much longer to fix. If you address pain while it’s small and set up right, it is easy to deal with.

I lost months (years?) of productivity to RSI. Take it seriously. Doing great now fortunately.

Can you recommend a trusted source for working out what the ideal ergonomic setup is for an individual?

Surprisingly, no. But a good physiotherapist is a great start.

A note about physio’s. Apart from asking them for general tips about how to setup an office well, you can also ask them to check your usual sitting/computer posture. I’ve even had them check my phone posture too which has been helpful.

Actually wait, yes. Back when I was at the worst of it, I spoke to some people at Ergo Canada: https://ergocanada.com/

They steered me towards the handshoe mouse, and also guided me through trying those dome type keyboard. (Didn’t work for me but the staff were super helpful)

I don’t know if they do US sales but they have every class of ergonomic product under the sun and fantastic experts who were focussed on helping rather than selling. They may point you to a US partner, a consultant, or be able to ship to the US.

(If they do give you advice about products I’d try to buy with them rather than shop elsewhere, they’re very helpful)

100% yes. I evolved pretty much the same setup over the years and it’s essential. I also have a trackpad on the left and mouse on the right to share some of the burden.

Oh thanks. I should add I actually have both a left and right hand handshoe mouse, so I can alternate if my right arm is acting up.

Interesting to hear you hit on the same setup. I think anyone new to WFH has to give serious thought to getting a good work environment.

A totally random tip, which I'm sharing on the off chance that it might help one of you the same way it has helped me:

I have a Herman Miller Aeron - which I love, and spend most of my working time seated in - but sometimes my lower back hurts a bit (I'm getting on in years, so this is a factor too).

I've tried height adjustable desks, but I don't find standing for prolonged periods of time all that comfortable.

But what has done wonders for me is simply kneeling on the ground, so that the rest of my body is upright, and I'll place a soft wide pillow under my knees to cushion them a bit.

In other words, only my knees are bent (so that my shins are parallel to the ground, on the floor, perpendicular to my quads). But my upper legs and torso form a straight line.

The height of my desk is just right so that my forearms sit comfortably on top of my desk, and I find that I can sit like this with a perfectly straight posture for long periods of time whilst remaining totally relaxed.

This kneeling technique has helped alleviate my occasional lower back pain, and I hope it helps one of you too :-)

I don't know, I found the best way to fix issues with my posture was to strengthen my core and shoulders, while increasing flexibility in my hamstrings, hip flexors, and shoulders.

I also never brought my aeron chair home from my office space when the lockdown started and for the past year I've used a cheap piano bench at my desk that has no back. Forces me to stay upright all day and it's been surprisingly great.

There's really no device that's going to do it for you, strengthening and stretching even a little bit goes a long way.

I concur, shoulder and back work is one thing that helped me open my chest up more than anything else. Even just hanging on a set of rings for a minute after sitting for a while feels really good.

Totally, dead hangs are amazing. I have a pull-up bar over the door to my office and will just hang there for a minute from time to time when I'm walking through it. Wish I had the space to mount the rings I have inside though!

I agree. In my experience, most back injuries are the result of insufficient core strength, insufficient stretching, or insufficient cross-training. The chair and posture has a lot less impact than stretching my back, wrists, and doing some situps.

I have to admit though, I don't stand up and walk around as much when I'm at my desk at home, compared to the office. I need to set myself a timer to walk around every 30 minutes.

Ive taken up Bouldering as a sport that is super compatible with WFH in a city. You can go to the gym, and interleave shoulder and core excersizes with coding sessions. I did this before the pandemic and am not in the city now, but when I go back, its a great way to stay in shape in that environment.

Rings are a cheap and portable excersize tool as well.

Yeah I'd like to get into bouldering more, I have friends that are way into it and they're in great shape from it. Those hangboards are no joke as well, really great for building strength and endurance.

Off topic: The pandemic has been wonderful for my gi tract.

Constipation driven by office bathrooms problems where a regular concern. I would really try to time bowel movements so that they would happen at home. And would get constipated if I missed my window.

Not having to worry about this has been a huge quality of life improvement.

Seconded. In addition to a shy colon, I have a shy bladder. It was pure hell working in an office, physiologically speaking.

Ever since I started working from home regularly, my GI system has never been better. I went from having the worst GI issues in my household to having the best GI system. I'm sure having less stress in general from not having to go to the office is a huge help. It's also great that I can freely pass gas as needed instead of holding it in for hours which caused tremendous pain as the day went on.

My back is actually doing much better too. I designed (using that term loosely, more like jury-rigged) a wooden chair with a tailbone cushion, open back so my spine doesnt have any pressure on it, and a swivel keyboard/mouse tray aligned with my arm-rests so it puts almost no strain on my wrists. It's basically like this - https://imperatorworks.com/index.php/iw-r1 - but no monitor attachments, it's made out of an old wood rocking chair, and it's ugly as sin. Does wonders for my back though

I built a small stupid app that tries to detect if you're slouching using a webcam, zero backend communication and open source. I use it and it helps be aware

https://github.com/lnenad/slouch-stoppah

https://slouchstoppah.com/

My home office setup was not that great. Small issues compounded over time so that eventually poor posture added up to so much tension that my ear went numb. I had to completely revamp my ergonomics and went to 16 weeks of physical therapy to fix the damage. It's been six months since completing PT and I'm still doing the stretches and exercise to prevent further issues.

It's very easy for me to say to myself, "I'll just work through this discomfort until lunch or until the end of the day." That's a hard habit to break. But just like any sport or exercise, the best course of action is to immediately stop, evaluate the situation, and make a correction. I wish I would have learned this lesson earlier, but at least I haven't caused permanent damage. Don't be like me. Be aware of discomfort and do everything to fix it early.

Another recommendation from me - over the course of maybe a year I went from sleeping with two pillows, to one tucked into my neck, to none at all, and found my longstanding cricked neck problems pretty much went away.

For ages I had suspected that something was wrong in my bed, but couldn't work out what it was, the only way I could describe it was I felt like I was "wallowing". Getting a soft mattress topper turned out to be a costly mistake, so instead I went the other way.

I was aiming to get such a comfortable bed that I wouldn't have to move. I think this was a misconception and that moving during the night is actually a necessary part of healthy sleep.

Although as a father of a toddler I have only a tantalisingly theoretical grasp on what healthy sleep is any more.

I agree - I've been sleeping without pillows for over 20 years now and I rarely have back or neck issues. Not that they were common before I stopped using them (I would have occasional issues), but then again I was a lot younger back then too ;)

Do you sleep on your back or your side with no pillow?

If on your side, how do you stop your head from dangling sideways? (Since should is lower than neck is)

For me, I often sleep on my arm as it makes a great pillow.

I had recurring back pain before the pandemic, which hasn't been around since the first few months. I credit the piano bench that I sit on. Turns out, I slouch in the stupidly expensive ergonomic chair in my office, but I sit upright at the piano bench.

I just commented a similar thing -- I started using my piano bench when I had to move my office to my home and it's been great. The occasional fatigue is a good signal for me to stand up and walk around even.

My wife and I used our first stimulus checks to buy Herman Miller chairs for our home offices, and it's probably the single biggest QoL increase I can remember from a purchase.

It has been the worst for me since I have bought a Herman Miller Aeron. The thing leans to the right. I have got replacements, but they were all made the same month and have the same leaning issue. Some worse some better. Such poor quality control.

I'm honestly intrigued how a 7 year old account has 4 comments in total. All in the last 2 months.

I mean the signup flow is basically frictionless here, and yet.

I just decided to start talking on public forums. I had an old account in my password manager that I never used to make a comment. I do not understand why my above comment has been downvoted. It is my experience with the product.

Fair enough. May you continue on commenting for another 7 years.

The quality has gone downhill the last few years with the new "remastered" Aeron chairs, IMO. Lots more plastic and thinner/lighter metal components. Anyone looking to get one you're better off with a 5+ year old refurbished classic. Half the price and honestly better.

This is interesting. Have you got any more information/literature? I really need to find a solution.

Here's a really good comparison:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XeHughLsLAw

Not trying to defend HM (never tried their chairs), but I own a new Steelcase Leap V2 chair and I have the same issue. The replacement is as bad, leaning to the right. Apparently it is a design feature. I don't understand how these expensive furniture shops can ignore such obvious issues.

This was my experience with a Steelcase Gesture Headrest. The refused to fix it and just wanted to give me a refund. The lean was so bad that I was falling out of the chair.

I find the hag capisco more comfortable for working. something about it just makes you naturally sit up straight. I slouch in anything else.

great chairs for the office, but awful if you want to play guitar at your computer. I guess you can't have everything in one chair.

A few of us here are on Team Piano Bench because it encourages good posture. You can't have everything, but you can totally play guitar and also store a lifetime of sheet music...

I didn't get a stimulus check but I similarly bought a decent SecretLab chair for me and my wife once COVID hit and I absolutely love it.

Until the pandemic, I rarely used my desk at home, so it just had a cheapy desk chair I got on Amazon years ago, but once it became my main "office", it became clear that a cheap chair going to really hurt my back and butt if I used it multiple hours a day.

I have had a rather non-conventional experience working from home this past year.

Pre-covid, I had my desk lowered to the perfect height (coworkers would joke about how low it was), adjustable seat, monitors aligned with eyes, split keyboard, ergo mouse, etc. Even with all this I would frequently have pain in my shoulder joints and under my shoulder blades (especially when drinking coffee). I stretched regularly, but the only activity I found to really help was boxing.

During the first month of covid I refused to believe it was nothing more than temporary, so I would work from my couch, with laptop on my coffee table, no mouse, laptop keyboard. Sometimes reclining, and supporting myself with blankets/pillows. Surprisingly none of the usual pains came up. This is still how I work day to day.

What’s interesting is I will occasionally play video games with friends on my office PC. When I do this the shoulder pains never fail to come back.

I’ve been considering buying one of those lie-down battlestation type setups, but I probably won’t.

Off topic: Do we have a submission article convention for indicating audio tracks / podcasts in the title? The written article is two paragraphs, while the audio appears to be a bit over 24 minutes. I did not readily find a transcript to read.

I'm seeing a full-length article and no podcast. (I am a paid subscriber to the New Yorker.)

That dress was definitely blue.

And I’m seeing the whole article.

Whoa.

OK so in Firefox, I first got a paywall modal. I opened the article again in Private mode, and I thought I got the full article (2 paragraphs) with audio. But if I open the article in Edge, I do see that it's much longer than two paragraphs.

(I do still see the audio clip before the first paragraph.)

Hmm...

I'm blocking the blizzard of trackers using Firefox and uBlock Origin. The best I can seem to get is two paragraphs and the audio player embed.

I'm not willing to fire up a pants-down browser to read this.

Edit: I was curious so I fired up Firefox's container system. A clean container does load the article. There's some manner of fingerprinting going on then.

Something is wrong in your end. It's a full article.

If anyone is interested in a gadgety solution to improving posture, I was convinced by this engineer/wife-guy's review to try this sticky sensor that detects if you're sitting upright, and concur — it's quite good!

https://www.ryanandalex.com/upright-go-2-review/

[edit] Like an idiot I charged into this conversation with reading the article, which mentions it but not in any serious detail. So anyway, if you're curious, do read this review, it's got graphs and metrics and all that goodness.

I never had back problems but lockdown is doing its thing. I used to be involved in all kinds of indoor team sports (soccer, basketball, volleyball) & was a regular visitor to a gym. I don't move much nowadays. I go for a walk every evening. I have a pair of dumbells. Needless to say it does not replace a fully equipped gym. There's no room for a proper power rack in my tiny apartment. So yeah, I hope this pandemic ends before I develop health issues from sitting too much.

> So yeah, I hope this pandemic ends before I develop health issues from sitting too much.

Never mind physical health, we've got a world where mental health has gone in the gutter.

My "desk" is actually four stations that I switch between.

1. Gas arm mounted monitor over the floor for lying supinated.

2. Floor desk with a backrest.

3. Rocking chair with a lap desk.

4. Prone using a laptop.

I also switch between various wireless peripherals as I switch between stations.

Of the four I'd say the floor desk is actually the best long term one because it's easy to shift position when working wirelessly, but the desk and mounting solution I have isn't quite tall enough to hold my gaze forward. Still, it's fine for a day.

My posture’s improved since i built a proper desk, but i suspect it’ll improve more once the erg is finally out of backorder and i can torture myself at home.

what's the erg? a rowing machine?

yeah. One of the more efficient home torture devices ever invented!

pandemic and lockdown has changed literally NOTHING for me, except not having to endure the walk to the car to drive to work

Well I'm glad things are going good for you. Some of us are still struggling. Many people are too poor to splurge 1K on a luxury office chair. This article is about those people.

Did you reply to the wrong person? The person you're replying to said nothing about buying expensive chairs.

His comment seems reasonable in context. The article is about poor posture, with chairs and laptops being indicated from the initial image. The initial comment says that nothing has changed for them, implying that their home office setup is just as good as their pre-covid office setup. The reply is to that implicit statement, saying that office chairs are quite expensive, so not everyone is able to reproduce the same setup in a home office.

These are not explicitly stated in the comments, but can be reasonably inferred from the context.

Precisely. Sorry if I didn't choose my words better GP.

Posture has nothing to do with your chair, and everything to do with how you sit on it. I've literally sat in front of my computer since I was 9 years old, on anything from old kitchen chairs to the cheapest, crappiest big-box store models.. Actually, the only place I've ever sat on an expensive chair has been in the office, and it was not that much better.. It's all about how you sit..

I sit in many weird positions throughout the day.. lean back, feet on a box. straight up and down, legs crossed, lotus, and yes, I squat on it too.. sometimes on my knees, sometimes the chair reversed.. pretty much anything that keeps my head above the table.. totally privileged, I know :)

Hell, the last chair was thrown out after it literally broke apart, it and before it did, it was crooked to one side for a few years. I'm 35 now, my back is perfectly fine. It's not about the stuff you've got, it's about you.

You know you can buy office chairs basically unused for 20% of retail price from an office outlet store right

1K on luxury office chair? What kind of office were you working in? I'm a software dev and every company I've worked at had those horribly uncomfortable mesh chairs. You can find low priced - if not entirely free - decent office chairs off Craigslist. There's entire wharehouses full of office equipment priced less than $100 that will have the same ergonomic effect if not better than an average office in my experience.

FAANG. The chairs at the office were super good. This is partly why I'm part of the pro WFO crowd - because then I don't need to spend thousands on getting a similar quality setup to the office.

Ye, I literally picked up my home-office chair for free, it was surplus at a school and destined to be thrown out. Sure, it's pretty worn, but the stuffing hasn't even STARTED to crumble to the floor yet, many good years left in this baby :)

lol getting downvoted for expressing misery - no complaining, citizen!

It's basically a blaring bourgeouis flag if the past year has been pleasant for you.

The less well-off and young are suffering greatly.

I'm one of the lucky few (Australia) who have been working back in their office in around October last year.

But my takeaway is that the purchase of a proper ergonomic chair at home has been an absolute game changer for when I am on the PC at home. Secondary ensuring I can keep my monitors at eye level to prevent neck problems.

Which chair did you get?

A bit off topic: When I see a The New Yorker article I click, just to see the illustration, always pays off, like this one.

Inventive, creative, original, funny, sarcastic, stylish; that's branding.

I stand 12 hours a day with my at-home standing setup. Also try to walk 2 hours of the day to get outside and stay sane. Thankfully can take meetings while on a walk...

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