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Comment by decafninja | Hacker News Reader

Just got off a FB phone screen which I think I failed. Only got through one question, and even that required assistance from the interviewer. My understanding is that if you don't finish two problems, you're doomed.

Spent the past week basically taking time off from work to do leetcode problems nonstop. Too bad it didn't help.

Third time failing at FB. First time failed the phone screen in 2018. Passed phone screen last year but bombed the onsite. And now failed the third time on the phone screen.

Also failed at Amazon (onsite), Netflix (twice - once on the phonescreen, once on the onsite), Uber (twice phonescreen), Microsoft (onsite). Got offers from Credit Karma and WeWork...how I dearly wish those offers were from any of the other companies I had failed at...

Needless to say, I feel horrible.

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>Needless to say, I feel horrible.

Is there a reason you want to get into those companies so badly? I personally don't practice leetcode, because my ROI on those types of problems is not really great, and I'd rather do things that I find to be more interesting with the time. This does mean that, when I interview, sometimes interviewers treat me like a child for not being able to reach optimal solutions for problems they know to be well known or simple. But I'm ok with that, because tech is an absolutely huge field, and there are companies out there that better fit me.

I mentioned this in another reply too, but the ultimate question is whether or not a particular new job/company is worth jumping ship from my current job.

I'd say little doubt, any of those aforementioned companies would be a "yes". I'm open minded about other companies - but again, it all boils down to that question. For Credit Karma and WeWork, where I did get offers, after interviewing there, the answer to that question I arrived at was "maybe" for the former (compensation was very lowballed), and "no" to the latter (weird culty vibes).

Not OP, but personally, the way I see it is the easiest way to break into “interesting” work (obviously that’s subjective as hell) because the sheer amount of work available and the biggest hurdle being leetcode, whereas at equivalent positions at non-faangs for certain type of roles the hurdle seems to be having multi decade experience in some domain / education/ etc.

Working in one of the companies OP mentioned. Don't assume that work at FAANG is automatically "interesting". You will do work others think is required for the company, "interesting" is never the key someone higher on the ladder is striving for.

If you want to work on interesting topics, start a side project and try to turn it into a company.

> Only got through one question, and even that required assistance from the interviewer. My understanding is that if you don't finish two problems, you're doomed.

Different loops and interviewers conduct interviews in different ways. There is no "one problem" rule.

Usually the questions are structured in layers where there's many follow-ups available. Based on the question, the interviewer, the loop, they can ask one problem or more. Unless you are the interviewer, it's not clear how far into the question you've been and what the expectations were. It is common to ask two questions though.

Context: I have 300+ interviews at Facebook and been active in the whole process.

Would be jawdropping pleasantly surprised if feedback came back positive, but I'm not hopeful. I do understand that miracles happen though.

I completely, utterly, bombed my Microsoft phone screen - as in, I could not even get a basic brute force algo down. Yet I got invited to the onsite because the interviewer liked me for some non-technical reason.

It's a good thing there are more than like 5 software companies to work at.

And most of the smaller ones, while less prestigious, are probably just straight up better places to work.

Of course. I will continue to interview.

That said, the number of companies I would be willing to jump ship to from my current job (despite my gripes about it) is not that large. Certainly more than FAANG, but I'd say < 100.

Every job I've ever had except one were for companies I had never even heard of before applying and usually in industries I'd no experience working in. One of the most rewarding parts of work for me is being able to shape the culture and future of a company even as an IC.

Forgive me for the observation but it seems to me you've put big name companies on a pedestal as though they are objectively better jobs and maybe have some blinders on in terms of the real scope of opportunity that is out there.

And if it's about pay, smaller companies can often pay well too.

I'm open to entertaining any company really, but ultimately the question it boils down to is: "Is the new job/company good enough that I'd jump ship from my current job?"

Not just pay of course, although I'd be lying if it wasn't a factor at all. I'd be willing to jump ship for the same (or even less) pay if other characteristics of the new company made it worthwhile.

I'm very curious what characteristics you place value on then, if you're placing FAANG companies at or near the top of the list. My impression has always been that they would be pretty shitty to work for.

Pay, Perks, People, Prestige, Projects, and just general work environment. Not necessarily in that order. Some of these are also subject to a sort of "compounding interest" for the rest of your career too that less known companies can't provide.

I'm aware things aren't perfect rainbows and unicorns there (or really, at any company). But the friends and excoworkers who've gotten into FAANG, and similar companies, absolutely love it. And not just for the pay.

> Forgive me for the observation but it seems to me you've put big name companies on a pedestal as though they are objectively better jobs and maybe have some blinders on in terms of the real scope of opportunity that is out there.

Except maybe for Uber, all those companies they listed failing at are objectively better at attracting attention to your resume than some no name, smaller company nobody's heard of.

I’m curious what’s wrong with Uber today?

You got offers from some pretty decent companies there, many many devs probably applied there and didn't get hired. Yet you feel horrible. It's very human what you're going through, but try to at least look at the positives as well.

What is amazing about how difficult these interviews are is that these companies (not including Netflix) put out bad products. Amazon Fire - terrible hardware, terrible software, Microsoft Windows ME, Windows Vista, Windows 8/8.1, etc etc

Third time failing at FB. First time failed the phone screen in 2018. Passed phone screen last year but bombed the onsite. And now failed the third time on the phone screen.

Being rejected by Facebook in 2021 is probably a good thing

Truth is, I am not as enamored about the company as I was before, and that's what I tell myself, but it's still sour grapes syndrome. It would still be an astronomical step up for me careerwise. I would literally throw away my senior SWE status to join any of the aforementioned companies as a junior SWE level.

> I would literally throw away my senior SWE status to join any of the aforementioned companies as a junior SWE level.

Sorry to say it but if I was a hiring manager and saw someone with senior experience applying for junior positions that's a red flag to me and I would be thinking they probably have big confidence problems.

I don't do this, of course. I don't think companies/recruiters/HMs would even consider allowing me to. Although I think midlevel roles are more within reach (and many of the offers I've gotten were for such a level).

The big companies just level you. So apply as a senior or junior and they level you. It's about alignment to the group more than anything.

It would still be an astronomical step up for me careerwise. I would literally throw away my senior SWE status to join any of the aforementioned companies as a junior SWE level.

It’s still not worth sacrificing your moral compass, or if you prefer, your soul.

Join the data team or the enterprise engineering side. Or join as a solution architect. Maybe there's a business unit that needs software engineers but can't get them the normal way. Your senior engineer skills will go a lot further there than competing in the general engineering pool.

I know these positions exist in all companies. Find the unseemly but necessary work and deliver. The current CEO of Google worked on Google Toolbar and turned that into Chrome.

You could even go the contractor route for 2 years and try to lever that into a full time role.

The other thing way would be to spend a year diligently leetcoding...

My understanding and experience is that nearly all tech companies will still subject you to the whiteboard interviews for any role that involves coding, regardless of experience and even regardless of whether you have connections inside vouching for you.

I've had great pre-interview conversations with hiring managers discussing technical topics, several concluding with them saying that they'd love to have me on their team. Have had friends/excoworkers vouching for me sometimes. Then I go screw up on the leetcode interview, and that ends the story.

Pretty much have been drilling leetcode every day since my last failure at FB last year. (Bad) luck of the draw saw to it that I drew a question I couldn't tackle.

Some roles are less about technical brilliance and more about solving business problems and effective communication. Take a step back and ask why vs what.

Not sure I understand. Are you implying I should target roles like project manager, business analyst, etc.? If so, not really interested in anything that doesn't involve active coding quite just yet.

I did see a post somewhere about someone's recent experience getting jobs at tech companies with minimal to no leetcoding. However he states that the only way it was possible was because he already had FAANGs on his resume and some of these companies were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt due to this.

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