The Price History of Campbell's Tomato Soup
politicalcalculations.blogspot.com
politicalcalculations.blogspot.com
Using BLS numbers, you get a price increase of 346% (=246/71) from Jan 1978 through Jan 2020. If we eyeball the graph from the blog, we're looking at a price increase from $0.19 or $0.20 to $0.85, which is 425% or 447% (starting at $0.19 or $0.20 makes a big difference). Looking closely at the dots of raw data, it looks like most of the recent ads clusterred around the $0.69, $0.79, $0.89 or $1.00 level. If you buy it at the $0.69 level, you're almost exactly at the BLS 346% level, whereas at $1 you're looking at 500%.
On wallmart.com, it seems you can buy it currently at between $0.98, $0.87 (4-pack) or $0.415 (12-pack) per can:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Campbell-s-Condensed-Tomato-Soup-...
https://www.walmart.com/ip/4-Pack-Campbell-s-Condensed-Tomat...
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Campbell-s-Condensed-Tomato-Soup-...
[1] cellphone and cancer, anyone? https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/925
[2] https://economicsfromthetopdown.com/2020/01/17/debunking-the...
He notes a bunch of legitimate but ultimately pretty minor criticisms of mainstream economics[1], has one actually solid argument[2] that he doesn't bring up until his conclusion. And uses that to advocate for throwing out all of mainstream neoclassical economics and all of mainstream macroeconomics, and do something totally crazy: replace it with thermodynamics[3].
He closes saying "But I’m also a hard-nosed scientist who dislikes analysis with dubious assumptions baked into it." He uses a bunch of minor criticisms and one core dissonance to argue for throwing out the current paradigm of economic science. Those "dubious assumptions" are the core of the current paradigm of economic science: that markets basically work most of the time. Believing that he's the smartest person in the field, he discards the established methodologies and replaces them with the mis-application of a more tractable field; he's doing what is sometimes referred to as quack science.
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[1]: Yeah maybe the framing around some analysis could be better (the bulk of his arguments). Yeah, it's problematic to use one price index for one part of a comparison, and a different price index for another.
[2]: Through the article, he shows that the chart is relying on believing that markets correctly value total economic output, but that markets are getting production workers' wages wrong. He doesn't call out this discrepancy until the conclusion though. IMO, it's the only argument he makes that really "debunks" the graph. However, there are lots of arguments that I can imagine economists making as to why the market gets things right or wrong in specific cases. However, he proceeds to argue that if you don't believe the market is valuing labor correctly, then why should you believe that it's valuing anything correctly. That you should totally abandon the idea of using markets to value things.
[3]: I kid you not. He writes:
> When you think this way, you realize that ‘useful work’ (the amount of energy put to an end use) is a good indicator of economic output. I propose that we treat useful work per labor as an alternative measure of labor productivity.
The author carefully words this so that it sounds reasonable. "'useful work', yeah, that sounds like a good way of defining 'productivity'." There are two big things wrong here:
1. How do we quantify "useful"? My first reaction was: OK, sure, but the measures that you're proposing to use this instead of are measures that let the market decide what's useful and how to value that. That's the type of thing that markets are supposedly pretty good at most of the time. If you want to argue that the market's getting it wrong in this case, that'd be one thing. But lets see how he proposes quantifying it, if not by markets...
2. ...oh, "useful" is just a fluff word, and he pulled a switch-a-roo with "work"! The casual reader might think that he's talking about something somehow connected to labor, but he's not! He's talking about physics-class thermodynamics "work".
My jaw dropped, I laughed out loud. He's seriously proposing that we stop measuring the productivity of labor by any human-level measure of value delivered, and instead measuring it by how much electricity and fuel is used! He even says this:
> ‘Useful work’ is based on the laws of thermodynamics. The standard measure of productivity, in contrast, is based on the dubious assumptions of neoclassical economics.
Yes, because thermodynamics is totally relevant here. But hey, it's a hard science™, so it's always better than drivel coming from the soft sciences, right?
Yes.
Edited to add: when you think of all the myriad social, demographic, economic, and political changes that have occurred in the last 50 years, focusing on some shiny yellow metal as some sort of first cause is an abdication of reason.
It actually pisses me off that someone is peddling this horse manure to promote their private money scams, and they have the brass neck to blame all the world’s ills on public monetary policy in order to enrich themselves.
Economics may well be the dismal science, but it is luminary enough to instruct us that restoring gold convertibility to the US dollar has zero chance of solving problems such inequality and government budget deficits.
Cutting back on luxury spending, like sending people to the moon, could be connected to a general belt-tightening, in line with a sudden curtailment of per-capita energy growth (World per Capita Energy Consumption, 3/4 of the way to the bottom of the page).
It would be a bit suspcious if in 1972 there are astronauts were on the moon, then after 50 years of exponential real economic growth there is nothing going on, even to show off.
That's literally want happened. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorbitant_privilege: "As American economist Barry Eichengreen summarized: "It costs only a few cents for the Bureau of Engraving and Printing to produce a $100 bill, but other countries had to pony up $100 of actual goods in order to obtain one."[2] In February 1965, President Charles de Gaulle announced his intention to exchange its U.S. dollar reserves for gold at the official exchange rate. He sent the French Navy across the Atlantic to pick up the French reserve of gold and was followed by several countries. As it resulted in considerably reducing U.S. gold stock and U.S. economic influence, it led U.S. President Richard Nixon to end unilaterally the convertibility of the dollar to gold on August 15, 1971 (the "Nixon Shock"). "
Perhaps it’s obvious to you, but I actually found the parent’s suggestion to be thought provoking. If you’ve got a strong justification to back up your strong opinion, I would be interested to learn more.
Admittedly it’s not something I know much about, but it certainly seems plausible that allowing the Fed to print unlimited amounts of money could lead to inflation. And, as that website suggests, that inflation could disproportionately benefit people who own things that retain value (real estate, stocks, etc) or who have good credit ratings and are able to borrow during inflationary periods.
In theory, there is now no limit to amount of money the Fed can create, but in practice there is a limit. Unlimited money creation without a matching rise in economic output would lead to massive inflation. They actually show incredible restraint in money creation, because their aim is not to see who can create the biggest pile of money in the world, but rather to keep inflation and unemployment low.
You're right that there are opportunities for wealthy people with good credit ratings to make money, but that would be exactly the same in the gold pegged world. If it's any consolation, a lot of that "wealth" is in fact unrealisable, at least not in the aggregate. Only increased productivity and new discoveries can raise our collective stock of wealth.
Economics tells us that inflation in the current format is a massive source of inequality. The 1-2% purchasing power lost every year doesn't just disappear: it is transferred to the first spenders of the newly created money, which is overwhelmingly banks and financial institutions (which receive it from the Fed). Literally making the rich richer and the poor poorer. Yes in theory that might not be the case if the newly created money was distributed by UBI or something similar evenly to all citizens, but that's not what's happening.
>It actually pisses me off that someone is peddling this horse manure to promote their private money scams, and they have the brass neck to blame all the world’s ills on public monetary policy in order to enrich themselves.
Jeff Bezos doesn't have $50 billion of wealth in cash, he has it in inflation-proof stock. Inflation doesn't hurt him, but it does hurt 50 million Americans with $1000 each in the bank, especially given lower and middle-class Americans have less access to financial products to hedge against inflation.
If Goldman Sachs was granted the right to print US dollars, everybody'd be up in arms, yet when the Fed does it and gives it to Goldman Sachs suddenly nobody cares any more.
Idk how you think Bezos is hedging for inflation, but being in nominal debt is literally the worlds best inflation hedge.
Adding to the limited ability of banks to hedge in the way you describe: Mortgage credit (the most common debt Americans have) is priced on a small, relatively constant spread over 10-year treasury yields, which itself is artificially manipulated by FED actions (and the FED doesn't even believe in inflation right now, so there's plenty of chance for a surprisingly high inflation rate benefitting debtors).
What I described is kind of the point of QE - the government essentially pays banks to "lose money" on loans b/c it's "good" for the economy.
The two obvious weak-points of the above are: 1) Most super-low income people don't have mortgage debt, but rather personal debt. HOWEVER, Believe it or not, personal debt is priced almost independent of inflation, because 'ability to repay' is the dominant determinant of yield. Sure, in a super-high inflation environment, CC APRs may go up, but they haven't for 30 years & have like 1400bps of spread above current inflation, so they probably won't any time soon (it's a very competitive market & is subsidized by swipe fees).
2) QE is (at least in theory) a VERY expensive way to encourage banks to take a loss on loans, and a lot of the proceeds go to rich people & overseas investors, so even if it does help debtors, it's not an efficient way to do that. I don't necessarily disagree here.
They don't need to predict the exact number. They know what the long-term target rate is (about 2%) and will tend to err on the high side. In a particularly bad year they might lose out with unexpectedly high inflation, but they don't consistently experience bad years. This is their core business and they're pretty good at ensuring that it comes out in their favor on average. They certainly wouldn't persist in making loans where they expected to receive less back in principle and interest (plus any subsidies, which just means someone else is paying back part of the loan) than what they loaned out after adjusting for inflation.
Secured debt such as mortgages isn't as bad, though I have yet to see a mortgage were the interest payments were less than inflation over the full mortgage period. So instead of losing 2% purchasing power per year to inflation you lose 3-6% in interest to the bank (during a time of historically low mortgage rates). And as you pointed out, when it comes to unsecured debt at 12+% APR it hardly matters what the inflation rate might be; compounding interest payments will far outpace any devaluation of the principle. The problem there is that the inflation discourages saving, which would otherwise have allowed those affected to avoid interest payments altogether.
In any case the main point was that the argument that inflation benefits debtors only applies to unexpected inflation. When it's systemic and predictable, like the 2% rate target the FED claims to be aiming for, and lenders are free to adjust their rates accordingly, there is no reason to think that debtors would have any inherent advantage.
Money is ultimately like food, in that we just require an adequate amount of the stuff. Using precious metals as the basis of money in a growing world leads to a chronic under-supply. Limitless printing of fiat leads to a debasing of the currency that would ultimately mean it ceases to be money. That is categorically not what’s happened in the United States.
In short: gold money is no more real or pure than fiat money. Perhaps if we lived in a static economy without the means to create artificial scarcity, we would use gold. But we don’t, and there’s no special benefit to doing so.
We can’t make our way back to a monetary garden of Eden because there was no Eden to begin with. The problems we see around us are primarily driven by other factors, such as tax policy and demographics.
>Economics may well be the dismal science, but it is luminary enough to instruct us that restoring gold convertibility to the US dollar has zero chance of solving problems such inequality and government budget deficits.
Your last sentence is pretty loaded. "Solving" those "problems" would imply that, first, they are indeed "problems" that need solving, and second, that there is actually a way to "solve" them. Some people just think that the world would be a better place if governments don't have control over the currency. No need to "solve" the world, just make it a little bit better (or less worse).
The wtf 1971 site presents national debt and growing inequality as problems created by coming off the gold standard, I'm saying that if you do think those things are problems, pegging your currency to gold won't resolve them.
Something like a government budget deficit cannot effectively be solved with monetary policy; they have to borrow their money just like everyone else (apart from a few special emergency arrangements). Reducing wealth inequality requires a broad range of policies, from education to taxation.
the world would be a better place if governments don't have control over the currency I have a lot of sympathy for anarcho-capitalist schemes, and of course private money predates central bank money so that would be nothing new. There's no economic reason why a country should necessarily form an optimum currency area. So I'd be happy with that, so as long as we don't just peg it to some arbitrary thing.
The value of all money lies inside minds and not mines.
https://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-price...
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
In 1913 dollars a 10 cent can of soup is $2.66 USD today.
So at $1.00 in 2021 its a bargain. :)
I think modern manufacturing processes have made common items cheaper to produce and this is how the ordinary citizen has been able to survive 40 years with very little real wage movement. (my opinion)
That time range (probably-not-coincidentally) is when the Gas shortages happen.
This is interesting to think about. Transportation/logistic advancements in the first half of the 1900s allowed pricing at worst to stay consistent over a long period of time, at best allowed companies to increase their profits as supply chains were established that made transporting completed product cheaper. Thinking about things like trucks etc here.
Americans spent more on food than on housing until ~1950, despite going to restaurants much less frequently than today. Today they spend over 3x as much on housing as food. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/how-ame...
A reasonable resolution the the productivity/wage gap would be that productivity simply hasn't risen very much over the last 50 years, and apparent productivity/wage gaps are due to differences in how the GDP deflator is calculated.
I would assume the content has not stayed the same. The time interval is long enough that tomato varieties have changed quite a bit.
[1] https://books.google.com/books?id=18sDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA37
[2] http://www.magazineart.org/main.php/v/ads/foodandbev/soupand...
At least, in many countries...