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Comment by war1025 | Hacker News Reader

> like New Zealand,

You mean an island nation with strict control over their ports and borders?

Not sure why this is downvoted; it’s absolutely correct. European, Asian, and North/South American supply chains are internally integrated. A truck driver transports goods from the Czech Republic to France and unloads them at the destination. For New Zealand it’s not like the ship’s crew is unloading goods at the last mile. A similar effect is at play in Hawaii, but the latter can’t deny entry to US residents because unlike New Zealand it isn’t a sovereign nation.

> European, Asian, and North/South American supply chains are internally integrated. A truck driver transports goods from the Czech Republic to France and unloads them at the destination.

But does that truck driver need to have direct contact with other people to do their job? Why can't they unload their cargo, sleep at a quarantine facility, and then drive a new truckload in the opposite direction, without an opportunity to infect anyone else?

Also, island nations still have internal traffic. What's different about the borders between parts of Australia that allowed them to be closed when European borders had to stay open?

> Island nations still have internal traffic

Internal traffic among 4 million people is a much easier problem than traffic among a continent of 800 million people.

> But does that truck driver need to have direct contact with other people to do their job?

I’m sure there are better ways to do things, but truck drivers often unload shipments, confirm receipts, etc and they still need to visit truck stops and restaurants for supplies, food, etc.

> Why can't they unload their cargo, sleep at a quarantine facility, and then drive a new truckload in the opposite direction, without an opportunity to infect anyone else?

Quarantining between shipments would mean drivers are mostly idle, driving the cost of shipping through the roof. Changing supply contracts so drivers exchange cargo at the border requires completely reworking highly optimized logistics networks and isn’t going to happen in a few years, certainly not by fiat from some bureaucrat or politician that has no experience in logistics.

> Internal traffic among 4 million people is a much easier problem than traffic among a continent of 800 million people.

Can you fill in the details of how exactly it is easier?

> Quarantining between shipments would mean drivers are mostly idle, driving the cost of shipping through the roof.

Well, if they don't need to sleep between shipments, I guess they can drive back directly and get their supplies and food at home. I wasn't suggesting a full two-week quarantine if they don't intend to have any contact with locals anyway, just staying for the night isolated from anyone they could potentially infect.

For a freight truck to cross Europe can take multiple days, especially as drivers are not allowed to drive more than 9 hours a day (all European trucks are outfitted with a tachograph) and in some countries they have to stop for all of Sunday. During those days on the road, drivers need to be able to stop and use a quality toilet and buy food, which generally means a petrol station. That is the existing infrastructure – your vision of hermetically sealed, disease-free places to stop is simply unrealistic as considerable time and money would be needed to build these everywhere in Europe that a driver would need to stop.

> That is the existing infrastructure – your vision of hermetically sealed, disease-free places to stop is simply unrealistic as considerable time and money would be needed to build these everywhere in Europe that a driver would need to stop.

All countries with quarantine facilities I'm aware of are using existing buildings. They don't have to be hermetically sealed, just ensure that people don't come into contact with each other inside.

All those countries with quarantine facilities are using a handful of locations around a handful of airports or ports. Truck drivers in Europe need to stop in an exponentially larger amount of places, and even repurposing existing facilities would be too great a challenge on that scale. Again, you don’t seem to understand how freight transport works in Europe.

>Also, island nations still have internal traffic. What's different about the borders between parts of Australia that allowed them to be closed when European borders had to stay open?

Australian states' borders aren't like those between New York and New Jersey (or Colorado and Wyoming), or Belgium and the Netherlands. There are a handful of highways that can be and were completely blockaded, and otherwise the borders are completely empty desert. (Even on the highways, there are dire warning signs about having sufficient water/gasoline/supplies in the more remote parts.)

And had mandatory lockdowns

Mandatory lockdowns make a lot more sense when you’re an island nation that can plausibly eradicate the disease. You reasonably can expect a month of pain and then resume business as usual, but the America’s, Europe, and Asian enjoy no such hope.

I know! Which is why it’s silly to use NZ as an example of anything.

Mandatory lockdowns are like cancer surgery. They can be very effective if everything is still localized, but if the cancer has already metastasized, it really doesn't solve the problem.

I’m not saying it would actually solve anything in the US, only that you can’t just say “look NZ resumed business as usual — the US should too!” because the situations are not at all similar.

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