Skylab: The Myth of the Mutiny in Space | Hacker News Reader

Skylab: The Myth of the Mutiny in Space

bbc.co.uk

147 pointsvijayr0228 comments

This story seems to have changed over time. It’s been separately reported that the crew was so fed up they took the day off without permission, and that was the only thing that jolted mission control into agreeing to backing off the micromanagement.

Also supposedly Jerry Carr was sidelined by NASA as punishment for leading the “mutiny” and never given an opportunity to fly the Shuttle.

NASA PR, as always, has their own spin on it.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/the-real-story-of-the-skylab-4-...

> "Our mission proved that micromanagement does not work, except where a situation like lift-off or re-entry demands it," says Ed. "Fortunately, that hard lesson got passed on for future space flights and crews."

I can think of a few people I've worked for who never learned this.

It is hard to balance: providing vision and direction but also autonomy amd room for growth.

As a manager, I get nervous: did I give my direct too much free-space and he/she did stuff that wasn't necessary? Will they resent me from wasting their time? Will they hate their job if they don't develop meaningful skills?

Each member of my team has GREAT capabilities. I want what's best for them. I sometimes get so EXCITED about what they are doing or capable of doing - I forgwt to stop "sticking my nose" in their work.

Different personalities require different management styles.

Personally I love having a manager that takes care of all my priority setting and frequently chases me for status updates. I struggle with those things, them doing this helps me focus on what I'm good at.

Other personalities do not respond well to this lack of space.

Neither of what I. Describing is micromanagement but I hate when people trope that they give their reports as much space as possible. That's a good way to waste my potential.

Ask.

I’ve always disliked the tendency to describe this otherwise amusing anecdote as a ‘strike’ or ‘mutiny.’ By definition, the captain of a ship—-or commander of a mission—-can’t ‘mutiny.’ They may be held responsible for their actions, court martialed, grounded, etc. but decisions made by the commander during the mission, whatever they are^1, are legitimate. That the mission commander aboard the ship would function as a military commander was established very early in NASA’s history—-going back to Mercury, where the commander was also the crew. Carr decided or agreed that his crew needed a break, and he had been very carefully selected to be the person who had the authority to make that decision. (^1 There is a modern exception to this rule in the case of illegal orders and war crimes, but that somewhat fraught question doesn’t apply here.)

You might enjoy the previous discussion at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18776068 .

Personally I found this bit very interesting:

> The narrative really took on a life of its own when a New Yorker article in 1976 referred to "a sort of sit-down strike one day about half-way through the mission".

> From there the Harvard Business School built a case study on the perils of micromanagement called Strike in Space, which sourced the New Yorker article.

Reminded me of the Gell-Mann amnesia effect [0] but at a societal level. I wonder how much of our received wisdom is post facto rationalisation and speculative explanation.

Recent events in the world have reminded me of a mediaeval letter from father to son - the gist of it is that the son would be shocked if he knew how poorly the high and the mighty were at taking good decisions - it is only from a distance that power appears to be well exercised.

I can't find the specific reference, but would be very grateful if someone from the HN family could chime in :)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Crichton#GellMannAmnes...

I love it. I will add to my list of favorite quotes. I am also interested by a full reference. thanx

Thanks :) I think a more earthy way to express it is: politics is like a sausage factory; if you knew how the sausages were made, you wouldn't eat them!

Which IIRC was said by Bismarck, the chancellor of Prussia

Wikiquote actually seems to indicate that this is mis-attributed to him [0] and that it was said by John Godfrey Saxe first.

[0] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck

...which is a perfect example of the effect in question.

Are you thinking of Machiavelli?

I don't think so.

I have a hazy memory that I actuallyb learnt the reference on HN - maybe I'm wrong but the woolly context I have is of a respected prime minister approaching the end of a long career, coaching his son and successor.

Unlike Machiavelli, who if I remember correctly actually had a very poor relationship with the ruling family after a brief period of success.

Perhaps this one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axel_Oxenstierna#Quotation

Axel Oxenstjärna was the Lord High Chancellor of Sweden during king Gustavus Adolphus II, who fought in the 30-year war. Not exactly medieval, but fits the description otherwise.

This is the one! Thanks

While Gustavus was a brave soldier, he was known to be a bit foolhardy. Besided getting himself killed in the battle of Lützen 1632, the story of the Vasa ship may have been what Oxenstjärna had in mind. Against the advice of his engineers, the king ordered his new flagship to be loaded with so many guns that she capsized and sunk outside of the Stockholm harbour on her maiden voyage only having sailed a short while.

Funny, is that the one they made the museum out of?

Yes, definitely worth checking out. The ship was preserved very well in the oxygen-depleted waters of the Baltic and is almost in a pristine condition.

This is very off-topic, but I cannot resist mentioning that when the ship was recovered from the bottom of the sea in 1961, one of the first things discovered from it was a miniature statue of Finnish olympic winner Paavo Nurmi. One of the best pranks by the student association of the Helsinki University of Technology. https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/62jm2z/til_i...

“An nescis, fili mi, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?”

“Do you not know, my son, with how little prudence the world is ruled?”

Scandinavian nobility still used Latin commonly in those days.

Also look up how “Stockholm Syndrome” was made up

More swedish examples coincidental

Referencing the alleged Gell-Mann effect is a self-referential example of itself in action. Why would you nod your head and say "oh that sounds authoritive and authentic" when it was an concept invented by a sci-fi author unilatetally using the surname of a friend for more gravitas? There were no studies or published papers about the effect, he literally invented it on his own initiative.

If I read an inaccurate article in a paper and then turn the page I don't suddenly 'forget' their lack of accuracy and read the next article uncritically, and I don't know anyone who does.

It is linked from the article but I think the audio interview is a more interesting link, so here it goes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cszmsv

> Amazingly, he says, in the last 48 years only one other reporter has been in touch with the Skylab 4 crew apart from the BBC, to ask them for their account of what happened.

sigh

Great piece, this is. The inverse relationship between productivity and micromanagent is one that every one should discuss with their boss.

Image legend:

>>Nasa staff at mission control discussing a problem with Skylab

Including a gentleman who appears to be a rehabilitated space pirate. How cool.

The fate of For All Mankind’s Skylab project was a fun twist, and possibly one of the least realistic. Yes, it has some things in common with what it became in their timeline, but would they have done that? No way.

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