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Comment by thewhitetulip | Hacker News Reader

Probably off topic, but till now I've been unable to read Le Carre's books. I don't know why.

I just can't continue then after a bunch of pages.

I've read hundreds of books but his are the only ones that I can't "enjoy" or "continue"

Well, since most of Le Carre's books play in a very dark setting, with strong reality connections - I also cannot really "enjoy" them, as in something to lift the mood.

I've read many books of him, but I actually cannot remember one, that was "bright" or uplifting. Usually it ends with death and despair and I think one of the main topic is exactly, how people still try to be decent humans in a cruel world - and how they mostly fail to do so all in all, either because they get shot, or because they play along. It is also mainly about choosing sides. When both sides are clearly not nice, but one is even worse (the cold war setting - british small empire vs sowjet russia)

I don't see how Smiley fails to be a decent human being in Tinker Tailor - he "plays along" only with her unfaithful wife, and that's because he basically loves her unconditionally (although eventually they will separate in later books, iirc).

I actually did not read Tinker Tailor yet, but several others, including the finale:

He still plays along the dirty lines of spycraft, which are at odds with "decent human being" quite often.

Spoileralert for the next paragraph:

With the finale of Smiley blackmailing a - by all accounts of the spys observing him, a very nice guy - into cooperation. Then blackmailing a father to change sides, otherwise his psychological ill daughter will have to leave her Swiss sanatorium and face Russia, which meant Sibiria as she would have been classified as dissident and not ill (she was both). Ok, the father was Karla, the cruel head of the KGB's 13. very black Division. Smileys antagonist. Who did this and worse things all the time. So Smiley finally beat him, by becoming him.

That I call plying along. And he does so very aware of it and hard on himself.

Yeah, but that's a point about the line of work, I think. The fact that certain "professions" will inevitably corrupt, because they are fundamentally based on deceit, so ultimately it's not possible to win if you stay clean. LeCarrè's aim throughout has always been to dismantle the James Bond myth, which was massive when he was writing and massively at odds with his own experience, so he attacks that world from the foundations.

Or at least that's how I see it.

Thats not it actually. I just find his narration to be difficult to follow.

I had finished Matthew railley's temple in 8 straight hours, entire Harry potter books in a weekend and GoT all books within 2 months while having a full time job

Le carre on the other hand, tried to read Absolute friends thrice before giving up. Tinker tailor twice before giving up

The only other author I've given up on was the guy who wrote His Dark Materials. Dont know why, they didn't "come at me"

I don't know about railleys temple, but the Harry Potter books I swallowed in no time, too.

But yes, you cannot really do this with Carre's books. You either read very slowly (which I tend not to), or you read them twice or more to fully understand. It is very deep shit, so to say. In terms of Character and story.

There are long mental battles fought, in dialoges in a boring room. And you try to make sense of it all. The layers of conspiracies. When the characters come in play with the story - when some slight things hinted in a dialoge - will in hindsight later reveal that person to be a traitor. So I read his books as elaborate dedective books. Shooting and night assaults do happen, but are quite rarely and happen fast and get not battle glorified. Like in reality. Sometimes you read only about the bloody shadow battles by a note the protagonist reads in secret. So you have to be into that, or not.

So all I need is hang in there.

Will try later!

As a non-Brit, I'm using the dictionary to look up words often, sometimes multiple times per page. So reading Le Carre's books as ebooks is better for me just for that reason.

I'm reading them in order. I found the first two enjoyable enough, but it took getting to the ending of The Spy Who Came In From The Cold for me to really "get" Le Carre. That floored me. Taking a break before starting the next one.

I also got a hint of that feeling from the "A Most Wanted Man" movie.

I didn't really like the Gary Oldman Tinker Tailor movie, so I'm not sure how much I'm looking forward to that book.

Don't judge the book by the movie. It's a very complicated story and the movie was nearly incomprehensible because they tried to cram everything in it without explanation. The book, and the 1970s miniseries starring Alec Guinness are both excellent, though.

Fascinating I find the Smiley ones in particular, gripping, Not just for the plots ut for the nuanced characterisations. Love them.

There’s nothing wrong with not personally liking a particular writer. Do you otherwise enjoy spy novels?

I love spy novels. Growing up, the only Genre I read was spy. Ludlum was my favourite author until few years ago when I discovered that Fantasy genre exists! (Hadn't read harry potter until I reached college)

But for the life of me, I couldn't follow Carre's writing and it saddens me. I have ~10 of his books in hard bound from constant gardener, absolute friends, tinker tailor but every time I start reading one, I get "lets go to sleep vibe" as if his writing isn't interesting enough

Maybe I'm not mature enough of a reader.

It could possibly be a little sleep deficit. I find when I’m bouncing off a book with that feeling, I just need to accept it and nap or turn in. Eventually it starts to hold my attention and I am drawn in enough that brain chemicals start helping me keep going.

Maybe. I'll try to read his books :)

Ludlum is uh...somewhat comparable to those sugary Froot Loops you used to eat as a kid. The Jason Bourne book set in China and Hong Kong has way too many characters who start their dialogues with "Aiyaa!", "Damn damn," and "Great Christian Jesus!" for me to stomach it a second time.

Have no idea what fruit loops are. But I loved ludlum's novels

Haven't read one since a long time now though.

I had a phenomenal time with Ludlum's novels when I was in high school. Less fun with Clancy. I remember with one book, there was one character's perspective that bored me and so I'd just skip it every time, just turned right past 20-30 pages each time. Didn't feel like I missed anything. :)

Well, you can say that about many books. I write books (not that I've published anything important yet) and normal sized books are 80k long. It is not possible for every word to be important and un "missable"

An overly sweet American breakfast cereal not worth trying as an adult. I read this particular one at my grandfather's house in Karachi one summer when it was stacked in the corner and I had nothing to do.

Bourne Identity was one of my top favourite at the time. But later books started dragging (Just like with Tom Clancy)

Now, I can't stomach either one of them.

I loved Bourne trilogy, Materese countdown

The only book I got bored by was Oracle of Omaha

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