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Comment by enriquto | Hacker News Reader

It is still de facto a colony, conveniently ruled by a spanish-supported dictator.

He was originally supported in the coup because his uncle (the then dictator) was exterminating Spaniards (and Guineans as well).

Since then, trade between Spain and EG is nothing to write home about, with Spain only being third to US and China as trading partners, and EQ's exports are a drop in the ocean of the Spanish economy. Investment from either country in the other is residual (<10 million euros). [0]

Also Obiang regularly blames Spain for funding/supporting oppositors, notably during the coup attempt in 2004[1], which is probably true[2]. Most of the time these oppositors also have Spanish citizenship.

So, in what sense is he supported by Spain, and how is it a colony?

[0] https://www.icex.es/icex/es/navegacion-principal/todos-nuest...

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/16/equatorialguin...

[2] https://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2008/03/12/espana/1205318523....

Ummm no. In fact the relationship between Spain and Guinea is surprisingly tenous considering the colonial past.

Guinea hardly makes it to the news and it isn't in the "national conscience" at all. The average educated spaniard would have to be reminded of the whole story.

Diplomatic relations are somewhat cordial, probably protecting some remaining economical interests, but a bit at "an arms length", as with other dictatorships.

Opposition politicians routinely seek refuge or meet in Spain without any trouble. If anything they decry the "hands off" stance of Spain, hardly the same as a "de facto colony" situation.

Curious username...

> Opposition politicians routinely seek refuge or meet in Spain without any trouble. If anything they decry the "hands off" stance of Spain, hardly the same as a "de facto colony" situation.

And care to hear what do they have to say? There's hardly any journalists willing to interview them. Mostly Xavier Montanyà that I know of. When asked "what could Spain do more for Guinea?" they invariably answer "to begin with, they should do less, offering less support to the current dictatorship". If you want a somewhat mainstream source that talks about this situation (which is rare), look here: https://elcultural.com/espana-en-guinea-ecuatorial-del-expol...

Basically, the support goes in the form of Spanish politicians of all parties receiving "prizes" from the Guinean dictatorship with the tacit implication of leaving them alone.

So Spain should mess with its old colonies or not?

My late grandmother worked with Atanasio Mdongo as part of his inner circle before his assassination, and later had to work for Macías Nguema. She was Bubi, working for a dictator that was carrying out a Bubi genocide. My mother escaped death a few times and eventually was smuggled out of the country to Spain. From what I know, journalists were indeed interested (in the 80s and 90s) but trauma and fear of repercussions meant few if any were willing to publicly share the kinds of stories they'll share on the dinner table. You also have to understand that most Bubi people in Spain are surrounded by Fang relatives and there's usually, even today, animosity towards each other. The diaspora basically hate each other and there are wounds that never healed.

Our most recent family table-top arguments on this "taboo" topic was triggered by the recent movie "Palm Trees in the Snow". I do think that these stories will eventually be written by people from my generation (born in the diaspora).

Thank you for the insight, much appreciated. Do you or anyone in your family keep in touch with E. Guinea in any way?

> Do you or anyone in your family keep in touch with E. Guinea in any way?

We have relatives that have returned, and we've kept in touch with some that never left. My mother last visited in the late 80s* but we always talk of returning now that things are less volatile.

We do keep in touch amongst each other in the diaspora however, so everyone shares the news from back home in some sort of network effect, and we get to hear "how things are going" (apparently quite well since there's crude oil!).

Edit: correction.

Wasn't that the oil income wasn't really redistributed, but kept by the elites? I heard there was some real state being built and such, but there wasn't really much improvement for most.

Is still Fernando Poo more developed than the continent?

I'm sorry if this isn't accurate, that's what I've been told from (presumably) other E. Guineans in the internet.

As far as I know, that is correct. However, apart from real estate being built, there also seems to be some heavy investment in infrastructure and they're trying to attract investors. I've also heard that there are plans to grow the tourism sector. The elite has also grown in numbers and there seems to be a growing middle class (mostly Fang diaspora going back) with connections to the regime.

I don't know what the real situation is and what they plan to do with the new wealth, but if I'm to speculate, the elite wants to develop the country and transform the economy so that they can keep a certain standard of living, because the oil reserves were never thought to last that long (however, I've heard of new possible deposits being found, not sure if there's any truth to that).

I see, thanks. I'm sorry for the amount of questions, but I'm very curious!

Do you see the ruling elite technically qualified for such leap? And if they are not themselves, are they hiring adequate decision makers, engineers and such?

Also, is there an education system in place (or in advanced planning) that allows to grow local technical talent?

I'd say it's complicated. Corruption and nepotism is a fact of life in E. Guinea. It's a society with many layers, all in service of the Nguema "dynasty", if I may describe it as such. The elite tend to send their children and relatives to study abroad, sometimes in prestigious schools, so there are many who are well educated and probably capable of leading and successfully carrying out large scale projects (and they do have some experience working abroad in positions of responsibility), but back home it's a system that doesn't foster healthy competition or reward the effort.

Education is also improving fortunately. The country never had a university until the 90s and now there are plans for a few extra campuses (still one university I believe), and I've seen some "propaganda" videos[4] where they seem to paint an optimistic picture of the future -- if we're to believe that.

Most infrastructure projects are carried out by foreign firms, and China has a very strong presence. For instance, the new planned capital, Ciudad de la Paz, was designed by a Portuguese firm[1] and, and the construction itself is apparently being carried out by a Chinese group[2][3].

One could say that the approach they're taking is very similar to what you'd expect from China: huge government spending, but tight control over the economy. I'm not sure if that model is sustainable but we'll see...

Feel free to get in touch. My twitter username is the same as my username here and my DMs are open!

1. https://www.fat.pt/projecto/nova-capital-da-guine-equatorial... 2. http://csci.cscec.com/en/yyfw/Construction/202006/3109352.ht... 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBY6r2Z3yeY 4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feyllyLVZ-E

Hey man, thank you a lot, I really appreciate your insight!

I've already followed you in Twitter :) Por ahora no tengo más preguntas, le seguiré la pista a los links, a ver a dónde me llevan, gracias!

thank you very much for your first hand accounts. They are extremely interesting!

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