Comment by 908B64B197 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by 908B64B197 | Hacker News Reader

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A (black) engineer colleague of mine told me about his team's effort to change master to main. The whole initiative was started by a rainbow colored hair (white) PM and since it was what they believed to be a highly visible and easy fix, grew to a team of 5. All non-technical PMs of course.

They ended up producing a "manifesto of inclusive software" where they listed every word they considered offensive and what it should be replaced with and made a very public announcement regarding the change.

The only response to their email was my (black) colleague asking if the branch renaming could be postponed to after a release because he didn't know what it could break in the build and release automation in case "master" is hard-coded somewhere.

This apparently started a lengthy thread between him and the 5 PMs where they explained to him that the reason he wasn't supportive of the change was because of the "systemic and cultural racism" he apparently internalized.

What happened then? Maybe in response, he said "no, I didn't internalize any racism, and here's a list of reasons why that logically isn't racist at all", and they said "Oh, never mind then".

Or maybe not. If accusing people of internalizing systemic racism didn't work, nobody would do it. We have a system where accusing a person of racism is an instant win and cannot be argued with, and as long as it is an instant win, it's going to be used, even against actual black people.

> What happened then? Maybe in response, he said "no, I didn't internalize any racism, and here's a list of reasons why that logically isn't racist at all", and they said "Oh, never mind then".

Shouldn't the black engineer's white colleagues "do their own work" instead of forcing him to do it for them?

This is when he should tell them to stop whitesplaining

> What happened then?

He stopped responding to the thread. Moved the ticket to "Backlog" and didn't assign anyone to it.

We have an "inclusion council" that hands out these diktats. The ban list (not blacklist!) is approaching 100 words

> This apparently started a lengthy thread between him and the 5 PMs where they explained to him that the reason he wasn't supportive of the change was because of the "systemic and cultural racism" he apparently internalized.

If you feel that the master branch is a symptom of systemic and cultural racism then sure, feel free to make your case. I am interested in what you have to say and will do my best to consider what you have to say as best as I can.

But once people start making these kind of arguments it's clear to me I'm dealing with someone in simplex transmit-only mode and not receiving anything I have to say.

I really hate these kind of arguments. It's just gaslighting and handwaving away of whatever people are saying. "Your argument is invalid because you are subconsciously racist". Right, what makes you such an expert on my subconscious, hm? This is where I lose interest in talking to people.

I'm about as liberal as they come, but in the last few years I've mostly lost interest in social justice cause not because I think the cause is bad, because there are too many people involved that are just thoroughly unpleasant to deal with. It's high time the community ejects some of its more toxic elements, which will benefit everyone, but thus far they're mostly protected, defended, and even celebrated because "they're on our team". But that's not how it works. Assholes are assholes, no matter which team they're on.

And without a doubt these people (PMs) proudly call themselves "allies" to the cause. SMH.

This is sad.

This is the most insane thing I have read in quite some time.

A PM working in government (happened to be a white woman) once asked me how I (a black engineer, early 30s) escaped the inner city and became successful. I thought about it and answered, "I decided to stop participating in activities that got the police involved in my life."

She called me a racist.

Are you even from the "inner city"? Trying to figure out how dumb this interaction was haha.

I have a totally opposite experience, I'm white trailer trash that managed to get a math PhD from a fairly high ranking school. People just assume I grew up upper middle class.

You caught that, eh?

I am not from the "inner city", and this conversation was pretty dumb. Most of them are.

think you can get that friend to comment here?

Wow how ironic... in their attempt to stop something that isn't even racist to begin with they actually became racists. It'd be funny if this cult like thinking wasn't infecting our entire country.

Thank God the white people were there to tell the black man how to think and feel about himself. After all they're incapable of self care and rational thought... /s

And they alienated someone who they were supposedly fighting for!

Are they fighting for him? His people? Or to Make themselves look good to piers?

I'd think piers would be to busy contending with water to care much about how anyone looks.

The irony here is two much

Buoy you really nailed that one

in their attempt to stop something that isn't even racist to begin with they actually became racists.

No, they were racists all along. They merely over-played their hands and revealed it. But actually they reveal it in other ways if you care to look: the hair and the pronouns in bio are giveaway clues. They "colonised" our industry and now it's time they got decolonised themselves.

This comment is getting downvoted, but the point it makes is validated by my own experience as a black engineer over about 30 years. My "internalized racism" has been explained to me many times by women who share many (if not all) of the same attributes.

As near as I can tell, their need to explain my condition is triggered by independent thinking on my part.

One of the worst forms of racism is often perpetuated by the coastal elites. I'm not saying it starts with a nefarious intent like other forms, but it's rampant. I've brought it up before to some and it's like a light bulb went off, yet they don't want to believe they're a part of it so they try and rationalize.

It's where they change how they treat someone based on the color of their skin while alleging they're an ally.

They think they need to save or help them because they think they're incapable of doing things like getting ID at the DMV, voting or using the internet. They're the ones that use terms like African American and have never had real talk with some black friends, if they have any at all.

They say they're for equality but they don't treat other races or ethnicities as equals. Maybe it just makes themselves feel good, maybe they have a lot of guilt, maybe they feel like they're part of the solution.

And certainly, some people could use more help than others, but it's dangerous, unhealthy and unfair to start with the assumption that someone is incapable of something or treat them like a victim to feed their own savior complex or agenda.

People who are physically handicapped don't even want people coddling their life. Why do some people assume they need and want their help with everything?

Maybe it just makes themselves feel good, maybe they have a lot of guilt, maybe they feel like they're part of the solution.

White saviour complex, is what it is. They soon turn nasty if they don’t think you’re grateful or deferential enough, same as male feminists do with women. But like I say you can easily spot them.

(Non-white myself btw)

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