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Comment by kgran | Hacker News Reader

Looking at these pictures, I've began to ponder how much of an influence the night sky has been in religion and mythology throughout the millennia.

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The path to modern astronomy went like this: cultures that lasted a long time (Multiple hundreds of years) typically developed observatories that defined the yearly calendar as well as dates of religious observances. Many times, their observations got very accurate and they could predict various things, although surprising stuff still happened. Eventually, civilizations lasted through multiple solar eclipse cycles and noticed they were periodic (keeping great records for hundreds of years and maintaing a class of people who can work with them is nontrivial). This eventually led to people being able to predict nearly all planet's motions with surprising accuracy (see the antikythera mechanism).

So I think it's had a huge influence ,and one that ultimately led to a scientific understanding of the cosmos. At this point, JPL can predict the location of nearly every major solar object for decades into the future and the main challenege is determining whether object movement is truly chaotic.

And in the modern world, we are blind to it because of light pollution. It's sad. One of the most amazing experiences ever, a truly dark, clear sky at night, is only accessible if you travel off-continent.

You better believe it.

I couldn't believe what the sky looked like at night when I moved to Australia from the UK. And I was in a relatively suburban setting then. I regularly go camping now maybe every 1-2 months out into the outback. And the night sky, without exaggeration and using the words here sensibly, literally, never, gets old. In my 19 years in the UK I never saw anything like it.

Edit: Admittedly I think the constant cloud coverage in the UK was more of a hindrance than the light pollution here I lived. Or at least it was so fucking cloudy so fucking often, I had no idea how bad the light pollution was.

I remember when I first moved here and looked up to the sky from my back yard and I could see Orions Belt. Now I'm less than a novice, I only recognised it from Men in Black (don't judge me). But that feeling I had in that moment stuck with me.

And I get such a ridiculous glee when I can drive 1-2 hours from Brisbane city and see the most ridiculous night skys I've ever seen. Keep travelling west and it just gets better and better. I can't wait to visit on of the Dark Night Sky locations.

NSW, Australia: https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/conservation-and-herita...

Ah man, damn it! I spent 10 months in Australia, but most of it was during lockdown, and I didn't have a car. I only got 1 week of travel and didn't see much of the stars.

My best experience was in Fiji and New Zealand, but I imagine that the outback could be even better.

I've gone out to Mojave on super clear nights. Vegas is easily visible, almost like a sunrise. The Great Smoky Mountains look good on paper (light pollution map), but in practice they are quite clowdy / hazy, so viewing isn't good. I imagine northern Canada could also be quite good.

Man that sucks! Were you mostly in Melbourne during this time? They were in lock down for a long time but most of the rest of the country was only 1-2 months of severe lock down (hard limits on leaving the suburb and then later, a hard 50KM limit from your place of residence).

I was in Canberra, which wasn't technically locked down for all that long, so I could probably have gone out more. It was generally very demotivating being there during the pandemic, so I mostly just farted around the lake on my bike. It's a big lake, though!

Cheers and happy trails. I'll return to Aus sometime!

For me the real shock was Lord Howe Island, which is 600km from the mainland and surrounded by nothing but open ocean. At night, the entire island has only a few dozens lights on for marine safety, powered by a diesel generator.

On a clear, moonless night the sky is just unbelievable. You can see several galaxies with the naked eye, which is not something I had experienced before!

Thanks for this! I will absolutely need to visit!

Agreed. I very recently was thinking about how humans up to a few hundred years ago must have seen the most breath taking night skies. Imagine a native American standing in a clearing at night 2000 years ago, with zero light pollution, looking at the night sky and just wondering what it is all about.

Even w/ a clear desert sky hundreds of miles from the nearest city (e.g. middle of Nevada), the sky looks nothing like these pictures. Astrophotography uses exposure times many multiples--and usually several orders of magnitude--longer than the human eye.

Can you see the Milkyway? No, not really; not without prompting. If you have no idea what to look for, the disc is just a barely imperceptible, slight increase in otherwise meager (relative to astrophotographs) star density. I've never seen it, nor other constellations, because I don't really know what to look for, though I've spent many hours staring up at the sky from various places, including extremely remote desert and mountain locales--Western U.S., Northern Mexico, Mongolia, Ecuador, Chile, etc.

Of course, there's no way to understand the awe and wonderment somebody lacking our knowledge, experience, and expectations may have experienced. Especially if they had never seen an astrophotograph.

EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, I wonder if astrology, navigation, and astronomy might have developed more slowly if the human eye had greater fidelity. With only several thousand stars visible (much fewer readily discernible, especially if you're not an adolescent w/ fresh corneas), the motion of stars probably stands out more. Imagine trying to recognize and track the planets on a background as dense as an astrophotograph. Where to start? Would you even recognize the relative motion? People had much fewer distractions during nighttime back then, but it still seems substantially more daunting.

I agree with your larger premise, but:

> Can you see the Milkyway? No, not really

This is not my experience. I have seen the Milky Way very clearly from a few locations in the US. None are particularly remote -- all are just a few hours drive from the large cities I've lived in. Winter months are clearer than summer.

Yeah I agree. Not only have I seen the milky way, but I've seen andromeda with my naked eye from the right place on the right night, within a day's drive from very populated cities.

+1. I’ve not seen it for 10 years (since I’ve lived in the United States) but growing up in New Zealand, looking up at the Milky Way with your naked eye, it’s definitely clear the increased density of stars. Doesn’t look anything like photos, but very beautiful.

Where I grew up in rural Wisconsin I could see it at night laying out on our front lawn. Not super bright, but you could definitely tell it was there.

> I have seen the Milky Way very clearly from a few locations in the US.

I agree. heck, I remember stargazing in rural New Mexico in the 70's, the moonless night sky was luminous to the dark-adapted eye. The Milky Way was a river of stars, bright enough to read by (well, distinguish the words on the page, I don't remember spending much time reading...)

Completely agree, I've seen the Milky Way just by traveling to a city called Eskilstuna, some 200km away from Stockholm, in the middle of the forest and away from settlements you could see the Milky Way much brighter than just a faint streak of light.

Maybe its clouds, or air quality, or general deteriorating climate, about 30 years ago, my village in plains of Punjab, we used to see lots of stars, constellations, & planets along with satellites at night time. Maybe absence of tv, mobile, culture of sleeping on roof in summers, made us more aware of stars. Full moon nights were like brightly lit. No moon nights were amazingly dark. We could see shadows in moon light. Things were just like day, but in dark blue grey color. We always saw the north pole star, few other groups, & watched milky way moving from side to side in night. Did not know its name, we call it SkyRiver in our language (Galaxy). For reference, now I am in northern california small town.

That is exactly the feeling I get the couple of times when I am out hiking hiking and see the most spectacular winter night sky. The feeling of being in the middle of nowhere and seeing the dark sky with an uncountable number of stars is indescribable. I believe it is a great loss of modern society and I really hope we are able to do something about it, we could do just fine without most of the street lighting we have today.

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