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Comment by fho | Hacker News Reader

Having lived in a mostly Turkish neighborhood for five years (as a German, Turkish landlord, Turkish "housemates" (?)) I think some just don't want to be integrated...

Landlord was pretty chill and I kind of miss being able to just ask anything and he would try to make it happen (including things like repairing car motors).

Housemates were of the mildly radicalized religious kind, with daughters that did not attend the normal school system and are now being married of early.

I don't know if the German "integration system" has failed for the later ... they have the freedom to chose and they chose a path that is different from what is considered "normal" in the "West".

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I think "integration" is a sham. Integration implies a give and take, a compromise. It seems actually assimilation or submission is what many Euro countries want.

As a Canadian (Vancouver), I can tell you true integration happens over generations of people working together and respecting each other. In those conditions, it is unavoidable.

If either group lacks respect, the outcome is always conflict.

You put their kids into school together young and they won't know not to be friends until you tell them. That was my experience, anyway.

And yet you've ignored the person you're responding to in their claim that turkish immigrants don't send their children to the same schools.

I'm all for give and take but I wouldn't want the "give" to result in backwards steps for woman's rights being imported from the countries of origin

>It seems actually assimilation or submission is what many Euro countries want.

No we think that forced marriage has no place in Europe, or the oppression of woman's. And yes, that's our culture..so is the freedom to choose your religion and to have free speech. If someone from another culture comes we are happy to integrate it into ours, but NOT when it clashes with our Laws.

>You put their kids into school together young and they won't know not to be friends until you tell them.

And what when they go into different schools (Jewish or Muslim etc), live in different parts of the City (look at Paris or Berlin), and never met someone outside of their bubble until 20 or later?

BTW:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia_in_Canada

> but NOT when it clashes with our Laws

I said it in another post ... it's not about being forced into something, it's about freedom of choice. And that is something universal, it's just codified in our laws.

It's completely fine if a women decides to become married and have children early ... it's probably not a good choice ... but morally there is no way to reject that.

The problem arises when people never learn that they have a choice ... I have (female) friends from rural Germany that think it's perfectly reasonable to go study and once finished move in with their husband and be the perfect stay-at-home mom.

edit: heck ... I even have friends from larger cities who would just prefer to be stay-at-home moms because that gives an excuse to sloth on the couch for half of the day :-)

Totally with you.

>The problem arises when people never learn that they have a choice

Exactly, that's the problem with the bubbles like (Ghettos/Banlieues), and "special" schools.

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