JingPad A1 – Consumer-level Linux Tablet | Hacker News Reader

JingPad A1 – Consumer-level Linux Tablet

en.jingos.com

127 pointsbhy111 comments

Assuming you don't consider something running the linux kernel to be linux (ahem, android)

>It is the World’s FIRST Consumer-level Linux Tablet.

ExoPC 2.0 came out in 2010, running MeeGo, which was a linux tablet that shipped with an OS maintained and hosted by the Linux Foundation.

>It is the FIRST Tablet powered by JingOS – the World’s FIRST Linux Tablet OS.

MeeGo, MaeMo, and the associated tablet OSes from that era shipped over a decade ago.

>It is the FIRST Time you can use a Linux-based Tablet as your daily driver.

To be fair, the ExoPC was a huge piece of crap.

I worked on this [1] Linux tablet 20 years ago, and we had working versions, but it doesn't really count as they weren't put into mass production. I don't know how many were built in the end (I left to co-found a webmail service). Sometimes it's depressing how long it takes for something to actually come to fruition. The screenshots in [1] are our custom UI based on NanoX [2], and an Opera port for the web browser screenshot (it worked). I wanted a production version for years after I left...

[1] https://linuxdevices.org/freepad-norways-alternative-to-swed...

[2] https://github.com/ghaerr/microwindows

Don’t forget all the Chrome OS tablets (yes, I am willing to call these Linux tablets), like the Lenovo Chromebook Duet.

Don't modern ChromeOS systems let you run Linux desktop applications?

They sound pretty much like they are Linux systems that beginning to let down the facade.

Yes, that’s my reason. Also, it’s rather easy to run your favorite Linux distribution on ChromeOS devices compared to Android hardware.

Awesome, I saw that you had to add in a little defensive comment and felt I should back you up.

> yes, I am willing to call these Linux tablets

They run the Linux kernel out of the box and can run standard Linux applications.

Pinetab should be usable before this ships, I'd bet.

The pinetab is not good enough to be anyone's daily driver

And the JingPad is currently vaporware. I'm not saying that either works today; I'm betting on which will exist and be usable first.

Considering how many people on the Pine64 forums and messaging groups are claiming to use their pinephones for their main phone, I suspect the Pinetab could be. The number isn't high, but it's higher than I would have guessed before (and after) I bought and started playing with mine.

I'm not saying it's a good experience, but some people have lots of patience and very few (phone-requiring) responsibilities.

Who are these people? I have a pinephone and it is nowhere near ready to be my main phone at all. It can't even make phone calls reliably.

It's a cool thing to play with but it is nowhere near to being a main driver.

> Who are these people?

People on the Pinephone forum. Simple survivorship bias.

Judging from the videos I've seen, the Pinephone is for tinkerers for now.

It's 2021 and people still don't care about boot security of their devices?

> MeeGo, MaeMo, and the associated tablet OSes from that era shipped over a decade ago.

To be fair there was no touch OS then - it was mostly stylus driven at the time. I don't think any of them had implemented multi-touch gestures for example, but please correct me if I am wrong.

Maemo did not, since its primary devices all used resistive touchscreens without multitouch support.

Meego had multi-touch support, though it was only used at an application level (e.g. pinch to zoom in browser, maps, gallery etc).

I miss both Maemo and Meego. I had a Nokia N900 that was great and then an N9 that I loved even more.

Meego did use edge swipes in the OS which felt advanced at the time.

I think this speak to market demand? There's just not a lot of use of this thing.

I've thought about using an iPad as dev machine (obviously it's not linux, but ssh+termux is basically the same) because of the form factor and battery life. But M1 chip solved that problem to me.

I just don't see why you want to run linux on a tablet, what else other than the command line draw you to linux? It's certainly not windows X. Tablets are just not very friendly to interact when the subject is a terminal.

Even though it was a failure the Jolla tablet exists in the wild in very low numbers. It's running Sailfish OS which is a fully linux mobile OS that can be used as a daily driver. I was a backer of that kickstarter, and I'm sad they didn't work it out to do a full release.

I'm pretty sure my Nokia 770 was from before 2010. I still have it around my room someplace.

JingPad is certainly not the first Linux tablet - there have also been: WeTab, BQ Aquaris E10, PineTab, JooJoo and more.

As a PinePhone and Librem 5 owner, I should be psyched by this, as a tablet running a Linux distribution that looks nice could really help the overall Linux on touchscreen devices ecosystem.

I am not too excited though:

1. With their current, x86_64 only release, GPL violations have been alleged.

2. PowerVR graphics make mainlining this device unlikely, meaning that it’s going to be stuck on a Vendor kernel and libhybris, as that Vendor kernel has likely been released with Android devices in mind. This is OK, but it’s not good long term.

3. Their marketing is a bit over the top, full of lofty claims that often aren’t technically true as has already been discussed here.

Do you have a source on the GPL violations? I went looking as I suspected as such but i only got as far as https://linmob.net/2021/01/31/linbits30-weekly-linux-phone-n... there's a single mention of it and the linked tweet has been deleted.

If they don't release the source and the custom drivers and patches they use to power the device then they'll probably be in violation of GPL but I'm not sure of the specifics tbh. I do agree that something like this will definitely help the development of touch screen devices on Linux.

https://github.com/jingos-team

I've commented earlier on the borrowed looks but the demo images look faked. This is a demo i found on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RadKVkwK6M

The transitions aren't as fast and smooth as they claim but the work has merit no doubt. The test tablet resembles the earlier ipad with large bezels but if they can deliver even half of what they claim and they'd opensource their code. I'll buy one

That video is a JingOS demo on a Surface Pro 6. Not the JingPad.

I am getting old, but I fail to see what the usage of RAM/ROM means in advertising devices; I see many devices, including this one, stating '6G RAM, 128G ROM' => I assume 128GB is not Read-Only Memory. So why is it stated like that? I see it all over the place; phones, laptops, tablets. I understand if it's just a retailer selling, but these guys are supposed to know something about the hardware? Or am I missing something?

Guessing the terminology stems off of EEPROM/PROM which was paradoxically, programmable ROM.

It’s probably an understandable misnomer for NAND/flash storage.

Just like a SSD doesn't actually contain a spinning disk, like hard disk drives and floppy disks before it :D

Apple labels this as "Capacity" (iOS) and "Storage" (Mac) which are maybe better terms.

Solid-State Drive doesn't mention disks.

Hard drives are named that way because they are devices that spin (drive) solid disks. Similarly a floppy drive is the device spinning the floppy.

You could argue that the solid state drive "drives" things in the sense of "control", or analogous to how a microcontroller drives its pins. But more likely it's named that way because "drive" has become synonymous with storage, as in "C-Drive".

In OS terminology they are all referred to more abstractly as block devices, i.e everything that is not system memory. But I agree with the OP that calling it ROM makes no sense, it's an SSD, call it what it is.

At least in Linux kernel terminology "block device" and "disk" seem to be used almost interchangably, for example the gendisk structure with the accompanying add_disk, alloc_disk, etc methods for creating block devices [1].

Meanwhile on a API level Windows talks about "disk drives" that abstract over "physical media" [2], but when talking to end users uses "hard drive" as the generic term, like in the sentence "You can install Windows to a hard drive, such as a hard disk drive or a solid-state drive" [3]

1: https://linux-kernel-labs.github.io/refs/heads/master/labs/b...

2: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/d...

3: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufactur...

I guess you are right. I would never have figured that as someone who used eproms for devices where you could not replace firmware any other way.

An iPad design ripoff (complete with the JingPad Pencil) with fake images from a Chinese company.

That's a no from me.

Yes it's a rectangle ripoff it's true.

I think it's the solid, flat grey-metallic border that gives it the iPad look. It's clearly distinct from e.g. the Surface (also grey border, but either slanted or with grove) or the Galaxy Tab (rounded towards the rear) or the Lenovo Tab (black, rounded in all directions).

Though really there are only so many variations on "flat rectangle with screen" you can do, it's hard to come up with an obvious design that isn't in use by someone.

sold? flat? grey?

> really there are only so many variations on "flat rectangle with screen" you can do

Exactly, and of those variation only a subset are widely palatable. In other words solid, grey rectangles are kinda inevitable for what is essentially a consumer hand held computer display... It's like someone calling the concept of a loop a ripoff from C - no.

Well, all while and for loops are ripoffs of Algol.

It is kind of notably how the JingPad looks like an iPad, but doesn't look like a Surface or Galaxy Tab or Lenovo Tab or Amazon Fire HD.

> Well, all while and for loops are ripoffs of Algol.

That is my point, C didn't "invent" for loops just like Apple didn't "invent" a near featureless rectangle.

But nether did Algol, for loops are the obvious next step for a conditional jump with a counter. In my analogy arguing about people copying Apple's iPad is like saying "look the syntax is more Algol-like than C-like", who cares, really... making simple and inevitable decisions doesn't mean people can own them and call it design, that's the child version of copyright "I have it so you can't have it".

If you look on the side with the power button it looks same 1:1

Definitely would wait for Ubuntu or Arch or whatever to function well on this. Absolutely no interest in running this Chinese flavor of Linux (JingOS).

Yup, I would love to throw NixOS on this.

Is it fully open source? Can someone do an audit? Has anyone?

This does nothing for me. I am waiting for a laptop built entirely in the West even if it will be more expensive. Buying Chinese products you support social score, camps, child labour and slavery. No thank you.

I get what you're saying, but if you're going to take that point of view can I assume you're living in a log cabin in the woods? Anything else, and you use Chinese-made products all day long.

Doesn't mean that we don't say no to Chinese garbage and propaganda from being shoved down our throats

I try to avoid Chinese products, but it's not always possible. If we start signalling to manufacturers that this is not okey hopefully they'll be coming back to build products here.

Let me be the FIRST to say that the landing page is a bit overenthusiastic.

I am unconvinced.

First of all, Android is Linux based, and not an unpleasant userland if you install Termux and use LineageOS or some other custom fork.

Second, even if you don't count Android, there's still Ubuntu Mobile, and PostmarketOS, and Sailfish, and Mobian, and others, all of which existed before this as far as I can tell.

Third, this website is drowning in rough marketing speak, with little substance.

I came in with high hopes, but am unimpressed. Maybe this is overly harsh, it's definitely a hard market.

Edit: The closer I look, the more unconvinced I get. I wish you luck, but maybe get something to show first next time.

With Sailfish some of us are still a bit sore over the Jolla Tablet [0] that never shipped and wasn't refunded.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolla_Tablet

As an app developer I tried for so long to get my hands on a Jolla Tablet, or an alternative tablet that could run Sailfish, so I could update my apps to run properly in tablet mode. I've finally given up on that with the realization that if the tablets are this hard to get, then there aren't enough users with them to bother fixing my apps for them.

> First of all, Android is Linux based, and not an unpleasant userland if you install Termux and use LineageOS or some other custom fork.

Meh, and the integrated Google spyware baked in? (because most Android is not LineageOS out there anyway), so there's a dire need for alternatives anyway.

There is also no way for end users to update their Android devices, so you end up with something disposable the day you purchase them.

> Ubuntu Mobile

They changed their name btw, and its still shipping with a terrible browser, and based on outdated sources (did they even move to 18.04 yet?)

> PostmarketOS

Not usable in touch mode

>> PostmarketOS

> Not usable in touch mode

Are you thinking of a specific user interface? Phosh is quite usable, among others. https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/User-Interfaces

There is definitely a need for alternatives.

My issue is they acted like this is something groundbreaking and unheard of, while what they've shown is either something that's comparable to other options in the space (Their software looks like branded Plasma Mobile), or vaporware (I won't trust them to deliver hardware, until they actually do.)

Edit: My other issues are located at the bottom of this page. This company has lost any hope I had for it.

> maybe get something to show first next time.

Well, you can download and install right now[1][2] (see "Download" in the nav bar), although the download link is currently gated by an email collection form which is somewhat unfortunate. (They do send you an .iso download link, yes I verified.) So saying they don't have something to show is inaccurate and misleading. Maybe you meant something groundbreaking to show?

Edit: Oh you're probably talking about hardware.

[1] https://forum.jingos.com/t/jingos-v0-6-release-download/514

[2] https://hk.mikecrm.com/Qzliv4B

I was talking about hardware, their software looks fine enough, though I honestly don't see a reason to use it over something else running Plasma mobile, a custom configured Plasma install, or LineageOS/similar.

Unless they've got access to more closed source drivers, the number of devices targetable with this is going to be comparable anyways.

> First of all, Android is Linux based, and not an unpleasant userland if you install Termux and use LineageOS or some other custom fork.

Android can be hacked into a passable system, but notice that termux is no longer in the Play store because of locked down permissions and expects further breakage from upcoming OS changes.

On the other hand, completely agreed that there are good options available and inbound, so until they actually ship this warrants some skepticism.

I just checked and termux is still on the Play Store.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux&hl=...

https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Termux_Google_Play

More precisely, no new versions go to the Play store.

I'm no fan of Android to be clear. My standard install these days is a custom rom if possible, and then only using F-Droid as a repo.

I want more options, I'm just unconvinced this is it.

The Aquaris M10 tablet came preinstalled with Ubuntu Touch back in... 2016.

AMOLED! Consistent with recent reports of a new 7" AMOLED Switch, and AMOLED becoming cheap.

Linux is not as tuned for battery life as android, but they claim 10 hours from their 8Ah. Believable.

11", 6.7mm, 500g, 8 core ARM (model not specified; should be the 7x line).

Bet it will cost far more than a comparable Android tablet (which can run termux).

> Linux is not as tuned for battery life as android,

On devices that run both that I have (had), Linux always wins (by a very large margin). It does take tweaking and running i3wm, but Android is a hog compared in my experience. As is Windows.

TBH, I don't even need to switch to i3WM just for some reason most Linux distros don't come with any power saving options enabled.

Even just adding auto-cpufreq helps, but I'm not sure why TLP isn't.

Especially on devices which are meant to converse battery life like laptops, tablets & phones. I still have to tweak them myself usually; auto-cpufreq + tpl is really no work and the difference is quite significant.

Do you compare to Android with Google services or without/with microg? It makes a big difference.

Which would be better? Why? Are you thinking of push notifications, or is it something else?

About push notifications, UnifiedPush is quickly becoming an interesting alternative: https://unifiedpush.org/

Google's services are a major performance and battery hog. Microg impact is much smaller, but obviously having nothing is still better.

Good to hear!

Android is tuned for battery life, but still gets annihilated when 100 background processes smash it.

Linux... epoll, and peace.

Wouldn't the Remarkable tablets qualify? They run a pretty standard linux setup, albeit quite minimal.

I wouldn't call an e-ink device a tablet. You can run a browser, maybe even videos somehow but it won't fit the most normal use cases for a tablet.

They advertise it as "the world's thinnest tablet" in the callout circle of text on the picture, the biggest main feature on the front page of https://remarkable.com/

It's a lot more than a fancy book reader - it's open to modification, so you can SSH and run anything on it. It has a fast enough processor and wifi, so your only limitation is anything that doesn't work well with a slow refresh rate. I wouldn't say that the display technology (the only real difference) is the defining factor for whether something is a Linux tablet or not.

Aside from the issues with the images others have mentioned, it would be more convincing if they had a native speaker go over their copy.

>The JingPad Keyboard is inspired by the Apple Magic Keyboard for the iPads. It is a full-size 6 rows keyboard just for productivity!

As a Linux loving hacker, this sounds fun to play with.

But pragmatically, how does something like this stack up against an iPad/iPadOS? If I'm to believe the press, Apple's chips are quite a ways ahead of the competition. And as much as I love developing on Linux running lxqt, I get the impression that display stacks and application development kits are also way behind in terms of efficiency, power use, and just general programmability/accessibility. Am I a victim of bad press. I'm honestly curious whether they're even in the same realm.

If anything, something old school like Enlightenment or Sawfish would be fun to play with on one of these, just for the sheer "trick it out" ethos.

If you are interested in hacking, you might want to look into DLT1: https://hackaday.io/project/164845-dlt-one-a-damn-linux-tabl...

It's not completed yet, but it's already looking awesome. Timon (a.k.a. Professor Fartsparkle, or just "professor") even managed to source a beautiful 2560x1600 10" screen.

Apple's chips are definitely faster and as an iPad user of since the first ones available, Apple UI stacks are really good. Especially now, since they're being aligned across the platforms. There's definitely stuff to complain about but I don't think this is meant to be an iPad competitor. There's been a shortage of proper tablets and alternatives in general.

But if this isn't in the same league, is it really an alternative?

Yes, I believe so. It doesn't have to be in the same league from the very beginning. iPads are very powerful, not every average user needs that and considering the fragmented market of android tablets, there really isn't a real alternative to iOS or Android. If they create something based on KDE, that works properly on ARM and opensource it, maybe other manufactures would get in the game too

I adore 4:3 screens and definitely see myself using something like this as my next laptop just for this reason, even if I would not touch the screen at all. But it must at least run unmodified debian before I consider buying something like this.

Looks great, but I'd be afraid it does things like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26306661

I guess sell first, develop second, right? - good luck from my side. If you manage to come even close to the claimed features I will buy one.

Bring back the CrunchPad, imo

That's exactly what this reminded me of too.

Looks cool, but –

> JingPad A1 will be available for a crowdfunding campaign on indiegogo before June.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Is this gonna end up like all the other first consumer Linux tablets, like the JooJoo or the Archos 10?

looks like the images are faked

And faked pretty badly too. Unless they really do have a top bar that doesn't fit on the screen.

Is there a linux OS which would be best suited to run on a decade old laptop in portrait mode, mostly for reading PDFs?

I'm running Q4OS Centaurus 32 bit on a 12 year old Acer Aspire One, 1.6 GHz Atom 512 MB ram with the Trinity desktop.

Works nicely. Screen can be rotated not problem.

Q4OS is a Debian derivative (Buster I think): https://q4os.org/

Most of them, honestly. Lubuntu is probably the easy choice, or Alpine if you're really resource constrained and don't mind configuring it all yourself.

Now this is sad, but a decade old system would be Sandy/Ivy bridge era hardware, which isn't that bad for non-graphic intensive stuff.

I would hazard that most consumers wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference with current hardware, especially as an e-reader. They don't tell us what they have or how much memory is installed, but if it is a convertable laptop with a touchscreen or similar then I would try Gnome. You will have a much better time for a simple e-reader.

If it is memory contrained, or ends up being an Atom processor then perhaps a lighter desktop might be better.

It's an i3 with AMD Radeon 6470M, I was thinking of using https://babluboy.github.io/bookworm/ as a library for PDFs but I think I'd rather stick with hackintosh on it(older macOS version/Mountain Lion) & simply use iBooks as a library for on device PDFs, since Preview is decent enough for my needs

I'd recommend you try out GNOME and use Foliate as a library manager. I tried using iBooks for a bit but it just didn't hold up to my expectations.

Thanks will check it out

This could be very interesting to me. But no specs on CPU makes me scared this will be a raspberry pi case.

Does anyone see any licensing terms?

Their stack is (currently) based on KDE Plasma, but they have not released source code (IIRC) for JingOS 0.6 and thus are violating the GPL already.

Hobby OS powered, Chinese, counterfeit Apple products.......Yikes.

Before anyone gets too excited, check the bottom comments.

They're right about one thing, which is the 4:3 aspect ratio. It is ideal for tablets that are used for something besides a Netflix delivery system.

Unfortunately Samsung went to 16:10 with the Tab S4 onwards. It's simply too tall in portrait and too wide in landscape, especially for something like the 12.4" Tab S7 plus.

I recently snapped up a Chuwi Hipad Plus (awful name!), which is an 11" 4:3 Android tablet for this reason. It's far better to use when typing, or reading PDFs. I could not care less about "black bars" when I'm watching the occasional video.

Looks like a scam to me.

my nokia 770 disagrees (from the bottom of a tub of old cables and networking gear)

If Wikipedia is to be believed, that's smaller than many of today's smartphones (apart from the 19mm (!) thickness). Not really a tablet, despite the name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_770_Internet_Tablet

I would believe that most phones these days are bigger than an old tablet.

Heck, some phones reaching the size of my Nexus 7!

By diagonal screen measurement, yes. The Nexus 7's aspect ratio makes it much wider than phones though (120mm vs ~70-80mm). A 7" smartphone is likely to have almost no bezel too.

Oh, completely. My Nexus 7 had a 7" screen, while the iPhone 12 Pro Max is 6.7", and the Galaxy S 21 Ultra is 6.8".

My Nexus 7 total size was more like 9" diagonal due to bezel.

Is there any discussion about price?

Great！

Guys this doesn't work. We can see you just created the account

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