Funny is this argument always exclusively pops up when it comes to Apple smartphones. Are we supposed to lock every desktop down too because mom and pop installed a wrong toolbar? It's like the reverse 'but think of the children', and people keep using it who would scoff at it in every other context, just to engage in this constant Apple apologia that has infected tech people who should know better but don't because they've grown up with macbooks with shitty stickers on it. The sort of brand influence that Apple exercises and the stuff it gets away with is truly astonishing.
Yeah I really wish we could... how many human hours have been wasted cleaning up infected garbage on friends and family desktop computers?
While I don't like the Apple tax, I really don't like the idea that forcing Apple to open up its App Store is the right solution.
I wish we could start with these ideas first:
- pricing transparency: force the UI to show exactly how much of every transaction goes to Apple. We already do this with many other taxes, so I don't see it as an intrusion.
- first sale doctrine fully applied: force Apple to allow users to install any OS they want on an iPhone. Prohibit locking, etc. But if you choose to use Apple's OS, then you have to accept their policies. This same policy should apply to game consoles and other hardware. (And this does contradict slightly my above point about app signing, but I'd argue that letting people use hardware unfettered is different than letting them use your software unfettered. But it's an admittedly weak and flawed compromise.)
First sale means I’m free to break my device, fine, but cannot mean it must be left more breakable.
- In the country I grew up I have to install rootkits in my computer in order to use the bank website. Some of them are borderline impossible to uninstall, and some banks have rootkits that conflicted with the ones of other banks. How do I know if it's not spying on me or not? It's a multi-megabyte kernel extension. I can't even use Linux or a Virtual Machine to access the website!
- For some apps I use for music making I had to install iLok which is (or at least used to be) the biggest piece of shit ever and crashed my computer all the time, because it was terribly written. I still refuse to buy anything that uses physical DRM.
- Even today in macOS (which is supposed to have a sandbox) I keep finding stuff in the disk from programs I uninstalled several years ago, because developers can't keep their telemetry spying garbage off every single corner of my machine.
- Every single scummy websites (which is 99% of all sites, HN and Reddit are the only exceptions I can think of) requires a login with Email so they can send me spam and send my information to third parties. With iCloud Sign Up I can sign in without that fear.
So yes, most of the time I wish my desktop was limited the way my phone is locked because I own my computer, not some asshole developer who decided my computer is their playground.
As long as I keep developing my software and compiling open source stuff, I'm good. Other developers can embrace the sandbox or piss off.
On iOS I can download effectively whatever I like from the App Store without worrying about it screwing up my system. That peace of mind is worth a lot of money, and is why people pay a premium to be in this walled garden.
I have no desire for for my iPhone to have the same threats presented to my Mac or PC. I also have no desire for my Mac or PC to be as locked down as my iPhone. There is room in the market for both. Trying to legislatively eliminate this option is ridiculous. If you don't like the device's security policy, then don't buy it.
As a developer, I just want to be able to distribute my apps to myself, my family and my friends without having to pay $100 per year and without having to ask Apple's permission for us all to do whatever we want with our $1,000 phones.
Our government will sort this out eventually now that iPhones have over 60% of the active phones in the US and that number will not be shrinking since 90% of the youth market is on an iPhone.
Apple will be forced to open up sooner or later, just like when "Ma Bell" used to force you to rent a phone from them just to use the landline that you also leased from them - once they had a majority market share, they got broken up. Same thing with Microsoft bundling IE with Windows - they were forced to share their APIs with third party companies. Consumers and small developers don't decide this. Lots of small, medium and large businesses are affected by Apples restrictions and they'll keep fighting it for us.
This is because we have so much "freedom" that Apple is free to do this. I would argue this is a false freedom, like the freedom to own slaves.
It's not an either or. I agree that most devices should probably be locked down by default, but there should still be an off switch. The so-called dancing bunnies problem everyone brings up doesn't appear to have caused a problem.
I wonder if it's an off-shoot of the concept of 'victim blaming', meaning it's not allowed to lay the responsibility for someones actions on them, there should be safeguards that prevent someone from making a mistake in the first place, even if it's at the expense of people who know that they're doing. I haven't fully fleshed out in idea in my head yet.
If you want a low-quality platform with limited security updates, multiple app stores, and other debris then buy an Android. I chose an iPhone so I wouldn't have to deal with these issues.
iOS is just as confusing as Android. Its a matter of which one you use first or regularly. Just as Linux is confusing to non-linux users.
Also. Android works on the dodgiest mobile hardware available to mankind. Something not a lot of HN users seem to know - from tractors in farms to research equipment in the arctic. I dont know about space, but if we are going to use a modern OS on space craft - I'm willing to bet it will be an android fork.
This is not an inherent compromise. iPhones could be just as safe and issue-free if they were rootable, just as cars don't need hoods welded shut to prevent their owners from messing with the engine. If you find the compromise acceptable, simply don't root your phone.
The following is a conversation I had with a relative, while trying to troubleshoot their phone.
Q: "Why doesn't my Bank App work?"
Me: [after many steps]"Because you need to update your OS"
Q: "How do I do that?"
Me: [many steps later] "Sorry you can't update your OS. You will need a new phone."
Q: "But this phone is only a year old."
Me: "The phone had been out for over a year before you got it. The [manufacturer] stopped updating it. You have to get a new phone to use your Banking app."
Q: "But new phones are so expensive, my phone is still plenty fast, and the battery lasts all day, why do I need to get a new phone?"
Me: "The manufacturer stops making updates to make you buy a new phone from them."
> [H]e got an iPhone and he find it more difficult to use [...]
I guess that's precisely because he is used to Android, not because iOS is more difficult.
1. Run a desktop window manager when connected to TV/monitor.
2. Share files using wifi direct or bluetooth.
3. Download torrents.
4. Switch between front and back cameras while recording a video.
5. Play fortnite.
6. Copy files to/from a flash drive.
7. Cast screen to TV.
8. Copy whatsapp chats from older phone.
It's possible (but yeah, it's been a problem for long).
Anyway:
> 4. Switch between front and back cameras while recording a video.
This is the only point that actually affects a typical user. The others are cherry-picked technological differences between the two platforms. They have nothing to do with usability, which is what people mean when they say iOS is simpler to use.
> 8. Copy whatsapp chats from older phone.
Yeah. If you kept the chats only locally (which you should).
> 5. Play fortnite.
Got me!
PS. I used Android for long and liked it. I just think iOS is somewhat nicer and safer to use for common people.
This is extremely noticeable in a couple of areas.
Subscription - you get an email from apple BEFORE renewal, and can easily cancel subscriptions - all located in one place - no phone calls or other stupidity (try cancelling a myheritage account by contrast!)
They have integrated monitoring so if you delete an app, it will ask if you also want to cancel out the subscription for the app.
The prompting for purchase and trials is VERY explicit. So for example, NY Times has a banner (not on ios) saying signup for $1/week. Great, you do it. Then you find out that in a month it switches to something like $15/month- I mean, the scams and tricks are endless off app store.
Especially with elderly relatives or younger folks or just folks who don't want to be hassled with this game playing, these features are what make using apple so nice and help drive the premium users are willing to pay (which can be ridiculous!).
One tip - if you have elderly folks, scan their bank statement / cc statement 1x per year, you usually can save them thousands on auto-renewing stuff they no longer use.
I really wish government or credit card companies would impose rules on merchants that prohibit this kind of behaviour. It's very easy to get bitten by subscription scams, even from companies that appear legitimate.
The lack of regulation on this matter just leaves Apple with justification to act as a payment gatekeeper.
I know this is not popular on HN (ie, anti-trust claims to allow devs to abuse users the way they can elsewhere).
They haven't been stupid / annoying about it. You contrast their controls with those outside ios.
The russian site I visit with the cookie notice, they can still track me and what am I going to do about it? So the cookie notice is both annoying an ineffective against bad actors. On iOS, I decline a permission, and it's done.
I can't lie. When I see companies like Match Group complaining that iOS policies prevent them from surreptitiously locking their "customers" into subscriptions[0], I can't help but chuckle. This is precisely why I bought an iPhone.
0: https://nypost.com/2019/11/06/tinder-owners-stock-tumbles-af...
> So for example, NY Times has a banner (not on ios) saying signup for $1/week. Great, you do it. Then you find out that in a month it switches to something like $15/month
Out of curiosity, I went incognito (as I'm an NYT subscriber) and clicked that banner just now, and it says it's $1/week for a year, not a month ($4.25/week afterwards). I'm pretty sure I've been seeing that offer for years, too.
Maybe you're in a different cohort or something but that's a weird and antagonistic way to treat a customer that's going to drop people out of a funnel so I'm wondering if you're misremembering.
That said, here is a recent BBB complaint. When I cancelled 2 years ago it was worse (no option to chat, you had to call and they left you on hold).
--- Complaint Type: Billing/Collection Issues
02/16/2021
I am nearing the end of a promotional offer from the NYTimes which offered a 1 year digital subscription for $4/month. I don't plan to continue a subscription at the full price and logged into my account to cancel my subscription. Within my online profile, there is no button labeled "cancel my subscription" or any similar option. I am only given the options to change my email or password, or update my card. This seems like a serious abuse to me a customer to decide whether or not I want to pay for the service. I have now been chatting with an agent for 15 minutes and still haven't been given an option to cancel my account. As of right now, I've been chatting long enough with a representative to fill out this BBB complaint and still haven't had anyone help me close my account. I have screenshots of my entire conversation with the agent if that's helpful.
https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/profile/publishers-period...
----
It's not that every fly by night website does this (NY Times is not exactly fly by night), but enough do that people really hesitate to sign up outside of the more trusted Apple walled garden - I know I do because I don't have time for this.
MyHeritage was even worse though, surprised there are not more lawsuits, they somehow found out my NEW card number after I cancelled my card to avoid them.
So while Apple is allowed to run their store their way without the scammers getting into the mix, I'll keep giving them my money happily. That said, HN devs and these types of companies all hate it I'm sure (not realizing that this is why apple phone users spend so much more - the well hasn't been poisoned by their stupidity)
Indirectly sure - it pays for the app store and all of the curation that goes on there. Admittedly there's a crazy healthy profit for Apple, but I believe you are arguing principles so the amount shouldn't be relevant.
This freaks builders out but shouldn’t, PCs are still a thing.