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Comment by JoshTko | Hacker News Reader

I don't want a bulky, heavy, non waterproof, and less reliable smartphone (due to more moveable parts) just to have a easily replaceable battery.

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It's not about changing the phone, it's about making the OEM tools, parts and service information available to independent shops so they can repair a waterproof phone the same way someone at the manufacturer does the same repair.

I suppose if an individual wants to buy an expensive tool to do a single repair that would be available to the individual too, but that's not typically what I would expect when we're talking about cases that involve an expensive tool.

For example, Chevy dealers have to buy a $15,000 lift/harness to lower and service or replace the battery in a chevy volt. In Massachusetts, that harness would be available to independent mechanics and consumers too, but I doubt any consumers actually buy it. However, at least the independent shops can and that means consumers can take it somewhere other than a Chevy dealer if they want.

There's a good argument to be made around helping local economies with this as well. Part of auto's impact during the 20th century was creating all these small businesses of car dealers, auto repair shops, oil change stations, gas station attendants, etc. The products of the 21st century largely don't enable any of that, the money just all goes to Apple and Samsung. And like, I don't immediately think to call up a local electronics repair specialist, I go to the Apple Store. And more likely than not I usually replace my phone before considering heavy repairs since its usually a couple years old at that point anyway.

Right to repair is not about making devices more repairable but about enabling us to buy parts and service from third parties outside the manufacturers.

Apple has begun serializing parts. You cannot take a camera from one iPhone 12 and put it into another iPhone 12 because Apple serialized the camera to the phone it shipped with. They are beyond reasonable with this kind of hostile approach to repair.

I think Apple is justifiably terrified of a 3rd party battery, installed by someone with 5 minutes of training, causing a fire and making headlines.

Okay, then why is the camera serialized and not the battery (which, incidentally, you CAN replace on the iPhone 12)?

Just guessing:

- it's a component of the Face ID authentication scheme

- they don't want people using iPhones with sub-par camera's posting on social media

- they don't want iPhones with sub-par camera's on the second hand market

Then don't let it take sub-par cameras. I don't give a rats ass about serialized components as long as I can still buy and install the factory parts.

The cameras have nothing to do with face ID, and its not just that 3rd parts cameras arent compatable, but even oem cameras arent without access to apple's systems called ast2 and gsx

> Okay, then why is the camera serialized and not the battery (which, incidentally, you CAN replace on the iPhone 12)?

on my macbook I can see the battery serial number in System Information under the Power section and the camera unique ID under the Camera section. not sure why it would be any different on the iphone.

How is a 3rd party battery related to replacing an apple iphone camera with an apple iphone camera?

Because there are also off-brand "Apple iPhone camera's" (for instance QC failures from the factory, third shifts or clones)

There are no 3rd party iphone camera's for recent iphones.

Apple blocks replacing an iphone camera with an iphone camera using their software.

iPhone 12 is unrepairable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnG3h3Jewq4

Apple (and authorizaed repair shops) can and will repair iPhone 12's.

Just wondering how often you'd need camera repair. I've never heard of someone needing a camera replacement for their phone, so to me this looks like a guy inflating a niche problem to enormous proportions to make a point for his sponsors.

Louis is a repair guy, not some guy working "for his sponsors."

The camera is an example of unrepairability.

Do replacement cameras and screens cause fires too?

Worse, they cause unsatisfied customers who don't want their next phone to be an Apple.

I bought some OEM stuff for my car. I bet Ford are fuming that I've devalued their product. If someone replaced a camera and weren't happy with it, at least they could try another.

I bet they are when you're passing it on as a 'genuine' Ford part when you're selling the car.

That's a problem for Apple. Why is it a problem for consumers?

I imagine the used market would be flooded with "iPhones" filled with non-genuine parts. Non genuine parts often don't interact well with things like firmware updates.

So by this logic all automobiles should only be serviced by the manufacturer. Somehow I think we'd manage to figure something out for a product that is orders of magnitude less dangerous than an automobile.

That's already the case for the more complicated parts. Also, at least here in the EU, if you want factory warranty you have to follow the dealer schedule and do the necessary replacements.

Apple is terrified of bad headlines? That's news to me.

Why should my rights to do as I please with my property suffer because of what Apple wants.

Last time I checked, i didnt lease the iPhone, I bought it. This is a straight up violation of property rights

we pay full price for these products, but we have no control of any sort!

If we let this continue, we will live in a world where the manufacturer of a smart bottle decides when you stop drinking, the manufacturer of a TV decides that you shouldn't be watching porn, etc.

They don't throw away the entire iPhone when they replace your battery. Right to repair would mean you as a consumer have access to the tools and hardware needed to make the repair.

Exactly this. People who want phones like this should be able to have them, but not at the cost of me being forced to have one too.

Well, they only "should be able to have them" to the degree that there's a sufficient market for someone to make and sell them. There are no guarantees that the product you want to buy is one for which there's a sufficient market to sell.

That depends, does what you want cause greater harm to society than the alternative? Does manufacturing less repairable devices cause more to be disposed of more quickly? Ideally with the environmental concerns we face, making what we already have last as long as reasonably possible is the least we can do.

This assumes that repairable devices on net cause less waste which may not be the case for smartphones. Lighter, waterproof, with no moving parts for battery swapping can lead to much longer lasting devices.

Waterproof phones can have replaceable parts. IIRC the "rugged" type phones on the market tend to use gaskets.

The rugged phones are also significantly larger and more expensive.

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