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Comment by SamBam | Hacker News Reader

Maybe I'm in a minority, because everyone always hoots and hollers about how they hate modern recipe web sites -- and I get it, 6 pages of memories of trips to grandma or whatever is ridiculous -- but I can't see myself ever using a plain-text recipe with no clue as to who the author is and no reason to suspect that they know what they're talking about. At that point I would probably go to SimplyRecipes, where at least recipes are voted on.

The sites that keep me are the ones that don't blather on about grandmas but do subtly give me some reason for why I should trust them, they explain that this technique makes the most sense, they describe how they've tweaked it from this cookbook or whatever. I also read the comments. In the end, though, my pre-existing trust of the site and author makes the most difference.

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> but I can't see myself ever using a plain-text recipe with no clue as to who the author is and no reason to suspect that they know what they're talking about.

Isn't this how recipes - outside of friends and family - have worked forever?

Celebrity chefs are the minority. People normally just Google "air fryer fried okra" and click on one of the first three.

A meandering SEO tale doesn't prove this person cook, it proves they know how to game Google.

This is why most people's cooking sucks.

It's not that recipes with meandering SEO tales necessarily have better recipes. It's that recipes without any explanation usually suck. If you pick something with a meandering SEO tale, it _might_ not be terrible. Possibly not terrible is better than definitely terrible.

> This is why most people's cooking sucks.

I'd argue that recipes themselves are why a lot of people's cooking sucks. The recipes tell you what how much and how long but fail to account for the basics of seasoning, preparation and tool selection.

If people apply a formal or acquired training to recipes they'd usually vary a lot from person to person much less the original recipe

The cookbooks I have I acquired thinking they were good sources of recipes, and they kind of are. But the real value I found, is the sections on "how to cook". Everything in those books on technique: from knowing how to convert tablespoons to volumetric ounces (yes, I'm American) to how to temper eggs. My favorite bread recipe book, for example, isn't my favorite because the recipes are the best, but because it taught me how to make bread, including things like creating a sourdough starter from scratch.

Recipes are easy to find, especially now with the internet.

Yeah, I’ve had the same experience. I really like the Salt Fat Acid Heat [0] book for this.

It does have a section on recipes, but a solid half or more of the book is on technique, why certain ways work and others don’t, etc.

Lots of stuff that I imagine one would pick up by working in a kitchen or going to school for it, but could take a long time to figure out on your own.

0: https://www.amazon.com/Salt-Fat-Acid-Heat-Mastering/dp/14767...

Nope, people got recipes from books and magazines, which were considered reliable gatekeepers.

Looking back at some of the gelatin casseroles of the 60s, of course, casts doubt on some of that reliability.

> Nope, people got recipes from books and magazines, which were considered reliable gatekeepers.

You're making my point - they were gatekeepers because they were discoverable and promoted. That's what gave them credibility. Just as showing in search results does now.

People didn't pick cookbooks because they had the most aimless stories that hid the actual recipe.

No, but when you have a cookbook or magazine, you also have things like photos of what the finished product looks like, so that you can

a) tell if it looks like something you'd enjoy

b) tell if it turned out right after it's done.

None of the recipes on this site have any pictures, which I think will hold it back.

I'd say most people these days very much do pick cookbooks for the text/stories, design, etc. Raw recipes are pretty much a commodity these days.

These days? Sure, but I was specially talking about pre internet. This is a rather new phenomenon that i believe comes mostly from SEO and a shift to things like cooking and organizing becoming commoditized "lifestyle" genres.

They were gate keepers because there was an editorial standard to uphold. That's what gave them credibility.

If you run the magazine Food & Wine and you just publish random recipes that you found for free in church-ladies' xeroxed recipe pamphlet, you're going to lose your readership pretty fast.

Of course, some magazines applied more standards than others, and so that's when the reader learns to trust the recipe in Food & Wine (or whatever, I'm not recommending them) over Reader's Digest.

>> "Looking back at some of the gelatin casseroles of the 60s, of course, casts doubt on some of that reliability."

The most convincing theory I heard was that the gelatin obsession was about status since it required refrigeration. Hosting a party where you served the latest, most elaborate gelatin dish said something about you.

If it's status I'd probably pick a different reason. Before commercial gelatin, making aspic was a fairly long and complicated process and it was part of high cuisine, especially in Europe. So that may have carried over to using it in middle class home-cooked dished when commercial gelatin became available.

Someday I need to try one of those quivering alien monstrosities. Maybe we're missing out.

I don't think OP talkes about polished SEO blogs or celebrities, but about experience and knowing the basics. If you e.g. quote Escoffier or Harold McGee etc, I trust you did your research.[0] Also, OP mentions techniques, which I agree are interesting and worth to share.

[0] (Of course you don't have to read and quote books, and a lot of good chefs didn't as well, but that is just one factor for me to decide how much experience you have/how trustworthy you are. Just showing some recipes don't tell me that much.)

I don’t care about credentials, what I like is what Mouthwatering Motivation [0] does:

1. Jump to recipe link right at the top (almost all recipe sites I regularly use have this).

2. Ingredients are described with extra hints or reasons for using them

3. Equipment used

4. Tips for the recipe, sometimes possible substitutes

5. Storage tips

No annoying background, just a short intro and pictures for the basics and otherwise helpful text.

[0]: https://mouthwateringmotivation.com/2021/03/08/no-bake-keto-...

I see what you mean, but one thing that site could use is to have the "Jump to the recipe" button follow you down the page. I mean, my god, I had scrolled to the equivalent of about page 30 when I suddenly really "how long does this thing go on for?" and had to scroll all the way back up to be able to jump back down to the recipe.

Exactly.

Besides, people looking for recipes are getting something of real value, sometimes hard won. That is hard to know, unless all that is shared too.

I play it like you do. The better sites offer context and serve up whatever AD helps them pay their way. Totally equitable.

One can always start really learning to cook too. Reasonable food is not too tough and being able to spiff up a recipe or substitute is the reward.

Great food is harder. I am getting there myself and I have a two generation body of recpies and notes to draw on.

My grannie was very sharp. Approached cooking like she did many things. She often had real mastery of stuff she wanted to do or was interested in. Similar values were present in my wife's side of the fam. A couple of those are over 100 years old! (Brought over on a boat from Europe)

In those books are notes, context, other info. Those are where the great was noted down, passed down.

That experience has given me a perspective on all this. People who share are doing something pretty damn high value.

It should be appreciated, funded, etc.

And no, our family books are getting scanned, but are not going online just yet. The women consider it personal.

I suppose it is.

It is also the food that brings people home every year too. I grok that.

Maybe the better people can end up on substack. Deliver the good recipes and context needed for people to get the great in them.

I may subscribe. Pretty sure my wife would, if it were someone she values somehow.

To me, being unable to be bothered some means maybe also not being all the concerned about the food.

Self correcting, IMHO.

Unless it's something I never tried to make before and isn't like anything I have tried before, I just want an ingredient list and the directions with a color pic of the final dish to entice me.

When deciding between competing recipes I want the ingredient list and a pic of the final product to decide.

I don't want to have to browse and search through the clutter of irrelevant things. I like Punchfork[1] for this. Easy to search, it presents the ingredient list and a pic then you can click through to the site for the instructions --unfortunately the actual sites are usually cluttered with few exceptions.

[1] https://www.punchfork.com/

I'm on your side. I need the author of a recipe to explain why their recipe is interesting, different, or better than others. And I need that to match with my own culinary reasoning and knowledge. Otherwise it's likely to be bland, boring, both, or worse.

That said, we are in the minority. Most people just Google the recipe they want to make and use the first result. This very very very rarely produces a good result. Most people don't care. And yet they wonder why their food sucks.

There's definitely some skill to cooking, but 80% of why I'm considering a good cook among my friends is because I only use recipes from people I trust, and I try to follow them as closely as possible.

> Most people just Google the recipe they want to make and use the first result. This very very very rarely produces a good result.

It depends on your skill level / experience. Some people have a knack for cooking and just need a rough list of ingredients to figure out a dish.

Some people need detailed instructions and rely more on recipes. I don't have any idea how to season things apart from a liberal use of buillon cubes, so my best dishes are when I closely follow recipe instructions from good cookbooks.

Since you mentioned seasoning, and I’ve got this in my clipboard from another reply...

Check out Salt Fat Acid Heat [0] if you haven’t seen it. It totally changed my idea of how to season things, to the point that I feel a lot more confident modifying existing recipes now.

One of the most eye opening things also sounds the most silly in retrospect: taste as you go. It makes such a huge difference! For whatever reason, I would always blindly follow a recipe until the very end, and hope that the “big reveal” turned out how I hoped. Now, I try to taste as I go (add a little salt; try it; add more). A related tip that blew my mind recently: if you’re making meatballs and want to check the seasoning, cook a tiny chunk of it and taste it before committing to a whole batch.

Anyway, I really like that book :D

0: https://www.amazon.com/Salt-Fat-Acid-Heat-Mastering/dp/14767...

Sure, people who just need a rough recipe will be fine. But most people don't fall into this category.

And more importantly, lots of people really _think_ they fall into a category where they don't need recipes to "cook well". In reality, they started off following shitty recipes, and so now their "expertise" is built on shoddy foundations.

> There's definitely some skill to cooking, but 80% of why I'm considering a good cook among my friends is because I only use recipes from people I trust

I strongly agree with this. I consider myself a fairly accomplished cook, I've been cooking since I was tall enough to see over the table, but one of the big things that helps is that I will take the time to find the right recipe, mostly by looking at the recipe itself and being able to visualize and taste the food before I make it, but also but reading what the author writes and deciding if I trust them.

plug for Felicity Cloake’s “how to cook the perfect” recipes in the guardian. she makes multiple versions of common recipes talking about the effects of the different ingredients and methods before giving her take on it. you learn about how the recipe works and are able to make substitutions/ changes much more easily. of course you can always skip to the last section where she gives her version concisely and with note a word about her grandmother.

https://www.theguardian.com/food/series/how-to-cook-the-perf...

yeah video and image would be good supplementary content

Yeah, sometimes at least basic images are incredibly helpful. First time I tried to make mac and cheese from scratch I struggled finding decent instructions on how to make the roux as I had never made or seen a roux before. Eventually I kinda figured it out after piecing together pictures from like 4-5 recipe sites.

plainoldrecipe.com

Recipe website de-cruft-ifier

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