Sorry - I meant to focus on argument from workers point of view. Govt jobs, you can get basically a job for life if you are not a total idiot.

Not for everyone of course.

One model I've seen some pretty large success with is employee ownership of companies. They seem to tolerate the total disaster flake outs less than unions do. I've seen unions fight for the drunk guy who hit someone with a forklift. My exposure to employee ownership shows it is complicated and there can be problems, but for whatever reason stuff happens.

Collectives on the other hand didn't really work - too many opinions? I know berkeley's collectives all fell apart.