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Comment by thehappypm | Hacker News Reader

This would benefit the Northeast quite a lot.

Assume that your average adult works 9-5, and your average school child is in school 8-3. Broad strokes, these are the two groups to focus on. I know most adults commute earlier than 9, and most students are up earlier than 8, but it's safe to say that most Americans are up-and-at-'em from 8-5.

On the shortest day of the year in Boston, sunrise is at 7:10am and sunset is at 4:14PM. Including civil twilight ("it's still kind of daytime") extends it to 6:38am to 4:46PM.

Even on the shortest day of the year, if you wake up even before 7 you're waking up in daylight. But, sunset is super early. Every working adult is commuting home in actual nighttime.

Shift that forward 1 hour, and it gets light at 7:30AM and gets dark at 5:45PM. While slightly darker for students in the morning, it's immensely better for working adults, who at least get some daylight in the evenings, and not actual nighttime before 5PM.

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I’ve always found it hilarious that we consider the 5PM end of work day so fundamental, constant and unchangeable that changing every clock in the country twice a year is easier to do.

It's not a global constant. Across Central and Eastern Europe it's quite common to work 7am-3pm. You have half the afternoon in the sun at any time of year to enjoy. In winter it's a bleak commute to work though.

I mean, in a way, you are changing the end of the work day (the work day will end a hour earlier in the previous time zone at one shift, and one hour later in the previous time zone at the other shift), it's just that the time zone shift is the mechanism we use to do it.

If we use the approach of having the workday end at 5 PM during one half of the year, and 6 PM in the other half, people have to ask themselves "Are we in the 5 PM half, or the 6 PM half?" This confusion will probably last for a few weeks, similar to the confusion when a year changes (I write the old year for at least a month).

On the hand, changing the clocks is a one time change, and then you don't need to constantly check which half you're in.

winter is 6 summer is 5. if you have to think about it it means you are oblivious to which season you are in.

Or in Hawaii

Or have the company just define and post business hours that work for them, like all retail companies do.

Or arizona

Also I know Colorado is mountain and it's always either -6 or -7 but on any given day I have to look up which it is. It's not a reflection of my intelligence.

If you are in Hawaii you are near enough the equator that the day length changes is negligable anyway so having a offset is pointless.

Presumably, there would be specific date that this change will happen. But the seasons don't change instantly from summer to winter on a specific dat, they gradually change over a few weeks, where the confusion I talk about will still occur.

It's also somewhat problematic: the above poster made a lot of assumptions about work day, but they're less and less true. Empty nesters, people without kids yet, childfree folks, all that rules out the school schedule (looking at the size of the school in my town, it's a small minority of people who have school aged childrens).

Then the 9-5 work day. Tradefolks often start much earlier. People working late shifts at restaurants and other service industries are very unlikely to do simple 9-5. People in tech are all over the place. "Early bird gets the worm" because if you're not at the default or earlier, you're basically fucked: hope you didn't need to sleep 7+ hours after that night shift, because you certainly aren't going to when the neighbors let the dog out to bark!

What interests me the most about this is that the times people use for work and school are set while the way we relate time to the cycle of the sun is the thing we want to change.

It’s probably easier to change behavior that’s arbitrarily done twice a year (changing clocks) than to change institutions (schools, corporations)

I've thought the same thing about temperature. In many places where the temperature and weather are unbearable during the day, the nights are beautifully comfortable. Alas, everything is closed. It would be amazing if "open hours" could shift with the weather, keeping people inside when it was bad and outside when it was nice, and if humans didnt need a 24h sleep schedule.

Benefits are highly regional. Where I live, the current latest sunrise is 8:06 am on December 5. I can't imagine a sunrise after 9am being very fun.

Agreed. I bet a lot of places would simply switch timezones if DST was removed.

And some places should actually just be in different timezones.

In Boston the latest sunrise is at 7:15am on Jan 2nd. However, the earliest sunset is at 4:11pm on December 6th.

If it were 8:15am to 5:11pm at the worst on either end, I know I at least would be less irritable.

I grew up with my shortest "daylight day" starting at about 08:40 and finishing at about 14:50. This basically meant that both morning and evening commute happened in basically darkness. No matter of time-shifting would've accomplished "get both ends of the school/work-day in daylight", although making them shorter would've worked.

My state of Georgia has been trying this a few times and acknowledge that even if the state passes it the Federal Government says that it is illegal to do so, though 13 states have done so.

It certainly would also benefit our and other IT support staff as it never ceases to amaze me how many modern day applications trip up when the time changes

Another added benefit is getting sunshine/vitamin D during these 'newly found' daylight hours. This will lead to people not having as severe colds/flu symptoms, and more time being outside which leads to better general health altogether. I really hope this passes.

"Except during the summer months, the skin makes little if any vitamin D from the sun at latitudes above 37 degrees north (in the United States, the shaded region in the map) or below 37 degrees south of the equator. People who live in these areas are at relatively greater risk for vitamin D deficiency." https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/time-for-more...

That roughly corresponds to San Fransisco on the west coast and Richmond, VA on the east coast. So, the impact will probably be minimal for many people.

This would be such a boon for skiing in the Northeast. At some ski areas, the sun doesn’t strike the ground until 10am (because mountains cast shadows). It would be brighter during the best skiing of the day. Also, by 4p the Apres Ski scene is well underway, so the setting sun would probably help that along further.

This would benefit all the USA quite a bit. I like my sunlight after I get off from work. It's a huge quality of life improvement to get another hour of sunlight. In the morning most people don't care about that since they're headed to work anyway. I suppose it might affect morning joggers and other like that but ask yourself if the early bird should always get the worm?

It's the opposite problem where I live. With DST the sun does not rise until 8 AM.

In fact, in January, the sun rises here at 7:40 AM Standard Time. Which would be 8:40 AM Daylight Time.

It would be terrible to have to wake up an hour before sunrise.

and it would absolutely F the state of Indiana. We'd have to switch time zones.

Would that mean Indiana goes back to the way they were before they started doing Daylight Savings Time?

Yeah, but Indiana is a good case study for why daylight savings time isn’t very effective. Didn’t they end up using more energy after switching to DST? I mean, they really changed because the show The West Wing had an entire episode about it, and nominally it was to keep in better sync with the East Coast. But they were able to measure actual energy changes as opposed to the theoretical benefits that are normally cited for DST.

(I lived in Indiana at the time they switched to observing DST, but I was on team central time zone)

Why would switching time zones F you? Your neighbors are in Central time, what's keeping you in Eastern?

I should have used more words to express my opinion. I completely support Indiana and Michigan switching to central time. Part of Indiana is already CST because it's basically an extension of Chicago. I assume the rest of Indiana is EST as a relic of railroad scheduling and our proximity to Detroit.

We're going to spring forward and, where I live, it'll be daytime until 10pm. It'd be nice if Indiana just went ahead and committed to CST. I can't imagine what it's like living on the upper peninsula of Michigan and still being EST.

wow, username checks out

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