People knock the recent Alien films but you know the scene where the android is leading the team through a theater of charred bodies and you think "holy shit, this is a HINT, how do you not see it?"
Well, when I got home, I realized that the disgruntled postdocs around me -- some of whom were smarter and worked harder than me and still got thrown out like so much trash because their thesis didn't pan out -- were also a HINT. How did I not see it before?
Thanks, Prometheus. You weren't a great movie, but you had a very important impact on my life.
https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...
And it was still better than 95% of films released that year or since.
We pursue the degree for deep personal reasons that are hard to discourage, even in the face of harsh economic reality.
I did a back of envelope calculation based on the number of grad students, the number of post-docs, their duration, etc., and concluded that I would need to be a superstar to ever get tenure. And I was not a superstar. On the other hand I've had a good career in industry, with no regrets. I live in a nice town, and rarely have to work long hours.
I was extremely lucky that both of my parents are industrial scientists, so I knew there was an honorable alternative to being a professor. The only hitch is that my own professors in physics could encourage my change of plan, but had no idea how to help me pursue it. I guessed correctly that computer programming would be important. ;-)
While I was not a research superstar, I was very good at making complicated machines work for other people. That's what I do today.
I imagine a society where all the funding into ad tech goes into cutting edge research, where we might have to wait a decade or two but before too long we reap the rewards. Even in small cases that that don't matter, even something like creating a video game, how much of the budget goes into the game and how much goes into advertising? Across the gaming industry, how much of the budgets for creating games goes into games that expand the mind, introduce players to new views, and garner interest in new areas of life and how much goes into reskinned slot machines?
This pattern seems to appear in many places. Short term optimization over long term gratitude as the social level leading to and caused by the same as the personal level. While it isn't the worse humanity has done, and it isn't anything worse than seen in other species, I wonder if this is a more pervasive and passive Great Filter that'll cling to us even after we have overcome others like the threat of nuclear war.
All the people around them are supporting them, how do you know they're really worth it? If a physicist spent 40 years producing useless stuff, would anyone notice? Does that matter? How many string theorists should we support as a society, anyway? And why say, researchers? Why not artists, interpretive dancers or historians? Critical race theorists? What does all this say about our values?
The plumber is in the physicist's apartment, knee deep in crap, fixing the toilet. Suppose the plumber has interests, things she would do if she didn't have to wade through crap all the time. Suppose she's actually a fairly talented artist. Why does the physicist get a "free ride", intellectual freedom and financial security, while the plumber deals with the crap?
Of course in our society you _do_ get a "free ride" by owning enough stuff. That's a separate, but related conversation.
Yet another thing that bothers me is how benefit is viewed. Ability to defraud others, addict them, create fear and then provide the safety for that fear are all seen as benefits where as a scientist who pursued the wrong theory is not. Yet in terms of how better off society is, isn't the scientist winning even if they net contribute nothing?
I don't claim to have answers. The more I ponder the nastier the problem becomes. Some of the answers I've seen other gives, things that could be summarized as variants of socialism or related, fail to account for other flaws in humans.
It somewhat reminds me of trying to figure out how to run a government. Like someone pointing out all the problems with democracy, yet seeing that there isn't a better solution. Well, incremental improvements in the specific variant of democracy aside.
Try building GPS without relativity. Try building modern chip designs, lasers, or many medical applications without quantum theory.
It's no different to funding start ups. Most fail. A few win big.
But... a room sharing startup is still utterly trivial compared to finding life on other planets or inventing a new kind of computing. Or game changers like EM theory, quantum theory, relativity, Shannon's information theory, or Turing/Church.
And a room sharing startup is still vastly more useful than the weaponised parasitism of most of the financial sector.
Academics are not the problem. The problem is poor allocation of resources, especially creativity and intelligence - all of which have been badly warped by the peculiar value system propagated by contemporary economics in ways which have left them far less productive than they have been in the past.
On the other hand, it sounds like what you are proposing is that there should be socialism for sufficiently talented people (I am not actually averse to this, although it seems fairer if it could somehow be extended to everyone).
Private capital will only fund ideas which a) have quantifiable benefit which b) can be captured. This aligns well with patentable pharmaceuticals or adtech, not so well with theories of quantum gravity. Stuff which benefits everyone conventionally has to be funded by government (although a patronage model does not seem impossible).
In the ideal case, how would we work out who are the sufficiently talented (they get socialism, let's call them the eloi), and who will who make their shoes and clean their toilets (it's capitalism for them, let's call them the morlocks)? What fields would be eligible for this kind of support and who would choose that?
It sounds like your complaint is that the existing systems for doing this (grants, tenure, research impact, prestige) are mis-allocating. I agree that existing systems aren't working well. Is it just that there is not enough funding, or does there need to be a rethink somewhere?
It seems fundamentally to be an information problem. That is, it's hard to figure out who and what are worth funding. The information problem is more difficult if the research has a longer time horizon.
No. If that were the case post 2008 we would have seen a major purge in the speculative financial system. We had anything but that.
The real issue is that tenure is not given to highly competent people. It's given to "superstars" and that is more of a political title than anything else.
My grad school friend who went the furthest, the quickest, is in fact a brilliant physicist. Another friend has had a long career teaching at a regional college, a job that he was really well suited for. Those are just a couple of examples, and of course they're anecdotes.
In my case, no amount of politics could have saved me from the fact that I didn't have a good idea for my own research program.
I can't tell you what happens at the absolute top tier, since I don't know any of those people, or at the very least, haven't asked them.
What I do suspect is that nobody's career is untainted by incidents that involved politics if you were to examine carefully enough.
I feel like our society and schooling really pushes the idyllic visions of things as well as the idea of strict meritocracy. I feel like this has left many of us jaded when we realize much of what we were told as we grew up were only half-truths concealing a bleak reality from us, and in some cases dooming us to self-inflicted issues like the one's described in the article.
Even obvious things like a course on how to cook or do your taxes or any of the things that people actually do in life aren't taught at all. At least they weren't for me. What's the relative utility of any K-12 lesson series compared to a series showing people how to budget or how to prepare affordable and healthy foods?
In reality we kind of expect people to learn everything they need to know outside of school and many things they don't need to know inside school.
>In reality we kind of expect people to learn everything they need to know outside of school and many things they don't need to know inside school.
Yea and isn't school system aware of this? After all, if you learn how-to cook & do your taxes anyway (out of necessity, which is a stronger learning signal nevertheless) why teach it with public funding?
The opposite of your complaint is: "Ugh why are school teaching such obvious stuff that you will sooner or later learn anyway? Complete waste of taxpayer money!"
I see school as a incomplete(lazy) attempt to teach a broader populace "context" behind everything we have learned as a society so far. But that is too wide, and too deep to cover fully. Hence we cut of at some width and at certain depth, and focus on things you wouldn't learn or even know in a everyday life, the "unknown unknown" so to speak, for the young, energetic, mind.
My diastase for school mostly boggle down to how utterly incompetent they were even in this regard, in practice.
But maybe you have a more informed view on things that I missed in the short text.
Plenty of people eat poorly because they can't cook, get their taxes wrong in a way that doesn't plausibly benefit anyone (unless this meant to be is a job creation program for the IRS), spend years not realising that they could start a business, have court proceedings go badly in a way that just wastes everyone's time...
I so wish I could do beautiful coding work but societies are not aligned with beauty (even at zero cost) so i'm bailing toward financial independance and peace of mind. Hopefully you and I can make time to join club or do thinking on our own terms.
Reminds me of a thought that's been sitting in my quotes file for a while.
"What one wants is to be able to talk with a diverse club of smart people, arrange to do short one-off research projects and simulations, publish papers or capture intellectual property quickly and easily, and move on to another conversation. Quickly. Easily. For a living. Can’t do that in industry. Can’t do that in the Academy. Yet in my experience, scientists and engineers all want it. Maybe even a few mathematicians and social scientists do, too."
-- Bill Tozier, Diverse themes observed at GECCO 2006
https://web.archive.org/web/20120625133020/http://williamtoz...
(And personally, I do want it too.)
I can also generalize that to human existence. I've struggled with work life a lot, I've seen good people going robbers, depressed.. but 90% of them came in the morning with the best intentions.. somehow in this system, naturally a sad state of chaos emerges that makes most people very frustrated if not more.
How did I encounter that quote? I have no idea. I thought I found it on HN, but going by HN search, I can only find myself posting it, twice before in the last 5 years. I must have found it elsewhere.
I saved it, because it strongly resonated with me - it describes what I would love to do for a living, and what I also think the society needs to improve both research and engineering.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Paul-Erdos
> Erdős would show up—often unannounced—on the doorstep of a fellow mathematician, declare “My brain is open!” and stay as long as his colleague served up interesting mathematical challenges.
(More anecdotes here: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/ho...)
My thought at the time was; If I want to do physics full time, I better make it rich first. I saw that the tenure track academic route seemed very far from my naive teenage dreams of what being a physicist would mean, and it was unrealistic that I'd even get accepted into grad school not being fully straight As. Currently enjoying a pretty decent career developing software for banks, so I can't say I regret my decision, esp. after reading articles like this.
If I look around me, I can identify only a very few who are paid a living wage to do a) a thing that they enjoy that b) doesn't have a direct, immediate benefit to others.
It's not just physicists, it's theorists of all kinds, the arts, history, and yes, underwater basket weaving too.
The people deciding tenure and grants are the best physicists, they are the best politicians who happen to have had a physics degree, or physics adjacent at some point in their education.