New England Almost Seceded over the War of 1812 (2012)
wbur.org
wbur.org
> "Probably in the neighborhood of 6,000 Americans were impressed by the British leading up to the war of 1812," estimates James Ellis, author of "A Ruinous, Unhappy War: New England and the War of 1812." "This was a real sore point."
Just to give some context impressment had been going on for a long time before that, and by the battle of Trafalgar (1805) over half(!!!) of the navy's 120K men were people pressed into service.
What would happen is they would drop coins into unsuspecting drinks in the local taverns and the drinker would suddenly find himself drinking and then touching the coin onto his lips on the last drink (something like that). So to avoid this the trend was to have drinking tankards with a glass bottom, so the drinker could check he was not being press-ganged into the navy.
ok did quick google and wiki does more service to this than my memory:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_shilling
> There are recurring tales of sailors being pressed after a shilling was slipped into their drink, leading to glass-bottomed tankards. However, this is likely to be a myth, for the Navy could press by force, rendering deception unnecessary.
Look at these lyrics from a 19th-century ballad (about, in fact, the battle of Trafalgar):
There was thirteen on the press-gang, they did my love surround
and four of that accursed gang went bleeding to the ground
My love was overpowered, though he fought most manfully
They dragged him through the dark, wet streets toward the Victory
And for all the horrors described about life in the royal navy, it was often far better than life in the country. You got food. You were a member of a crew with rights and privileges. A laborer in farm country, or in a mine, was much worse off.
This doesn't really follow from the description in your parent comment, which claims that being impressed is worse than being a free sailor but better than being a free peasant. The logical conclusion from that is not that sailors would be lining up for Navy jobs if the Navy couldn't enslave them.
> Involuntary enslavement, whether permanent or temporary, is a terrible thing.
This point is more interesting. Note that the military is generally still enslaved today; leaving and disobeying are both illegal. The modern US military is not involuntarily enslaved, but it is voluntarily enslaved.
Should other employers also be allowed to employ voluntary slaves?
From my personal point of view the Colombian army is terrible, if one of their own combatants get shot in combat, they kill him and dress him in a uniform that resembles the one wore by guerrilla.
A week ago they bombed 8 kids and dressed them as guerrilla fighters [1] and it is suspected about two million people were killed in the last 20 years by the Colombian army.
My family belongs to a long line military and police men, so I get to know beforehand the new ways in which they are benchmarked. During the 2004 till 2012 administration the military and police men were required to have certain amount of blood liters per month [2].
1: https://colombiareports.com/duque-presented-bombed-minors-an...
2: https://washingtonmemo.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/colombia-the...
I'd add another recommendation, too, for anyone interested in that period of naval history - specifically, when it becomes reasonable to do so again, I'd recommend visiting both Constitution in Boston, and Constellation here in Baltimore. Constitution is the last surviving of the "six original frigates" referenced in Toll's title, and the oldest ship in the world still in commission; one of Constitution's sisters was the original Constellation, and her second-generation namesake here in Baltimore represents the final evolution of the design to which Constitution and her sisters were built.
Naval warfare in the Age of Sail is a minor interest of mine, enough so that I've read a good deal about it and even written a little. But nothing else I've found has given me the same sense of what those ships really were than walking their decks and being in their spaces has done.
Granted, even that isn't "real", in that visiting a museum can't possibly give a true sense of what it's like to serve or even go to sea aboard one of these ships in her time of greatness. But, short of signing aboard as a mate with one of the museums whose ships do still sail, I think visiting these ships is about as close as anyone can expect to come - and, either way, it's very much worth doing in its own right, for anyone who shares the interest.
The constitutional amendments proposed there involved (from the wiki):
- Prohibiting any trade embargo lasting over 60 days;
- Requiring a two-thirds Congressional majority for declaration of offensive war, admission of a new state, or interdiction of foreign commerce;
- Removing the three-fifths representation advantage of the South;
- Limiting future presidents to one term;
- Requiring each president to be from a different state than his predecessor. (This provision was aimed directly at the dominance of Virginia in the presidency since 1800).
It would be an interesting country had this come to pass.
Like you the Age of sail and especially the Napoleonic Wars and the War of 1812 are interests of mine. My interest started after reading the Aubrey/Maturin series which I can't possibly recommend highly enough. I agree with you walking the decks or walls of the forts is irreplaceable if you are in to the history.
Even then, on a museum ship, you're probably not going to be woken up, in the middle of the night, in the middle of the Atlantic, to furl sails due to a storm. (Summer 1981, on the USCGC Eagle.)
20+ books does seem like a big commitment but once you're hooked you just want more...
this advantage of course dropped away in the age of missiles and jets but it still has many benefits to this day.
https://www.capenews.net/falmouth/news/falmouth-planners-app...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni...
"The British expedition to Tibet, also known as the British invasion of Tibet"
https://www.humanosphere.org/basics/2013/08/map-of-the-day-w...
But certainly the whole grey area of exploration and invasion have been ironed out in today's times and not a grey area any more.
What I find interesting is how many wars did the UK have with France in some form or another - crazy times and historically the UK been at war with Russia in some form on it's side more times than with the French on the same side. That's kinda crazy, but perspectives of the time and perspectives today are different and much nuance to history that sadly does get lost or overlooked.
I suspect most of those were English wars with France, some parts of what is now the UK tended to side with France in these conflicts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance
This tradition lives on in the "Anyone but England" rule at sporting events... ;-)
Yes, even in my youth as a child in the 70's/80's in football, nobody wanted to be England, so I get that. The panini football stickers and what was popular player/team wise showed this out nicely.
Quoting Palin [1]
- In 1903, however, on a trumped-up pretext, an army, under Colonel Francis Younghusband, crossed over from India, fought a bloody battle not far from Gyantse in which some 3000 Tibetans died, before storming the fort from which we're looking out and going on, unopposed, as far as Lhasa. The British left four years later, leaving behind in Gyantse a post office and a public school. All that remains now is the Anti-British Museum, housed in the dzong.
In the circumstances seems reasonable that British visitors (like me) should be made to feel more than a bit uncomfortable about this episode.
It's not really talked about much in the US either because it was ultimately much less significant than either the Revolutionary War or the Civil War--and, to the degree there was a winner at all, it wasn't the US.
And the part where the US agreed to help end slavery. And then ignored it.
1-0 for the good guys! Ca-na-da! Ca-na-da!
I'll show myself out.
I'm a Tecumseh fan, IRL.
There's even a Wikipedia article about it... which is rare because not much has happened down there except for one of my heroes Rick Danko.
(at the time of the raid, my family's respective sides were still to be in Ayrshire and Ulster for another hundred-and-fifty years or so—no historical connection to the event, or even the war excepting they probably had as much disdain for the British as Americans might have. Go figure.)
(doesn't matter if it happened after the war "ended". minor technicality.)
Aside from jingoistic comic book like tales, we as a people rarely talk about the past.
I’m not sure where you hang out, but for me, with a six year old child, I’m enjoying going through it all again.
In fact, having grown up in Tulsa, and seeing the race riots come to light last year, or living in the Bay Area and hiking out at Sir Francis Drake’s landing spot a week ago, or our family’s attempt to visit Maine for their 200 year anniversary last year...
Yeah, I don’t think “we” are notorious for this. And having studied in London, getting the chance to explore 10 other European countries, one of which I later worked out of, I don’t think they’re much different.
If you’d like to spend more time exposing yourself to our rich history, I’d actually suggest downloading the PBS app, visiting museums, or exploring the country side - where there are the Missions along El Camino Real in CA. Ghost towns in the middle of the country from old industries, and people who call themselves “coon-asses” (Cajuns in Louisiana) who from my experience have deep loyalty to their past.
You happen to be exceptionally educated. I know the history I was taught in high school was effectively anti communist propaganda.
The Brits fought the war with the units they didn't need for the much more important war with Napoleon.
That American don't remember their capital being taken and their most important government building burnt down by another nation is kind of funny however. And that's why nobody remember it, no movies about it.
Then the US spent the next 50 years fortifying their East coast to prevent it happening again those forts are where the Civil war eventually started.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House#Early_use,_the_181...
In my experience, most people remember a few fragments like you do, and particularly famous events from the war (old ironsides, burning of the white house, carrying out the portrait of Washington to save it) might not even be associated with that war in people's minds. Most people seem to erroneously associate many of those events with the revolutionary war, similar to how they often associate the Constitution with the revolutionary war even though it came later.
Going to beg to differ. We learned about this in elementary and then in more detail in middle and high school. Don’t know why so many commenters seem to think the 1812 war isn’t taught in US schools.
Conversely what I find odd is that the American revolution doesn’t seem to be taught in British schools at any length. I’ve talked to multiple British friends who have almost know knowledge of it and say it’s not taught. I get that the UK has a long history, but losing your biggest set of colonies in a revolution that go on to become the most powerful country in the world seems like a big deal. Something worth spending at least a little time on in public education.
I mean, its not the biggest, and they weren't anywhere near the most powerful country at the time (which is what matters geopolitically)
America is pretty obsesssed with the american revolution. Other countries aren't going to be. Why would they?
https://www.alternatehistory.com/decadesofdarkness/
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/DecadesOfD...