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Comment by leveleer323 | Hacker News Reader

I agree with the gist of the post expect walking around naked. I don't know if its a right thing to be naked around children. I am too biased to be brought up growing with clothes on, haven't thought or heard the argument of the other side.

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You don't know if it's right to be naked around children? How are they supposed to learn about normal bodies?

Here in the Netherlands a new children's TV program started: [0], kids ask naked people questions. I applaud it, finally, a source of naked that is not porn, The kids ask stuff like: "What are you most ashamed of about your body" and things about new hair growth they are about to experience, not even sex so far. And they get to see realistic penises and breasts while they are learning.

I guess I'm finally starting to understand why I like old Dutch movies like "Turks Fruit" [1]. Or modern non-US series for example from Spain, where people have sex (even in their 40's omg!) and go to the toilet, and where women are strong. I like Casa de Papel for example, Raquel is very sensual, intelligent, funny, flirty and strong, and usually fully covered in clothes, perhaps the antithesis of this new asexual trend. It's refreshing and normal and liberating. Of course it helps that she like's the nerdy "Professor" ;). Although this nerdy professor can, in contrast to all stereotypes, flirt quite well ("Intelligence can be very sexy") and knows how to engage with her. Also: refreshing.

[0] https://nos.nl/artikel/2371530-naakt-in-nieuw-kinderprogramm...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Delight_(1973_film)

Seems that they got the idea from a Danish show which similaryly got "controversy" around it because it was unusual.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/ult...

I can assure you that kids raised around parents who are naked constantly is perfectly normal and healthy. I was raised in the 70s and my parents were constantly naked. We all sat in the backyard hot tub naked. Not a thought was given to it.

I now do the same to my kids. The key is to do it from day one, so there is never that first memory of “when did you first see your parents naked”. There is no first because it’s been always. There is no shock because it’s perfectly normal.

> Not a thought was given to it.

Because you don't look at your family in a sexual way. Similarly in Renaissance, for example, we had some nudity going on in art, but it was done in a tasteful and non-sexual fashion. That's different from outright pornography or erotica, which is what children should not be exposed to.

> you don't look at your family in a sexual way.

Like the parent commentor said, it's probably about experiencing nudity from day one. I grew up in a family where you'd never see someone naked, but then, as a teen, was exposed to a family that's comfortable with being naked around each other. I had some readjusting to do, because for me nakedness had become something super private, dirty and sexual. Now that I think about it it makes me kind of angry that I grew up with such a stupid outlook on the human body.

Growing up in Finland it is also perfectly normal to be with friends and family naked in sauna, and between it while you chill out on the balcony or take a break.

Icelandic communal hot springs. Aren't those nude too?

Cool. I grew up amongst neighbors who were Danish and hippie nudists (12' / 3.5m fencing in their backyard). I only wear clothes or conform to most societal expectations to not shock the 98% of people who are normies and/or uncool.

Kids don’t know if something is good, bad, weird or whatever until they’re told. If you are fine not wearing clothes, and do it in your home, your kids wont think anything of it.

Not true. It’s not uncommon for a toddler to find a private place to defecate without being told. There is an innate sense of a need for privacy for some things.

But isn't this just an instinct not to defecate at the place where he/she plays and spends time? How can you be so sure that it is about privacy?

I will now point you towards mainland China, where kids as old as 90 will shit in the streets. I’m not kidding either (although this is changing in the larger cities.... slowly)

That’s learned behavior.

Yeap. I've seen this. People who pee or poo wherever they're at.

Are you sure that's not learned behaviour? I've only ever seen it in older kids. I'd hypothesise it follows "expert" advise that suggests what I consider very late potty training.

Well consider 1 year olds will do it (my daughter did it when wearing diapers) even though we have no indication it was needed.

I've spent time around more babies & toddlers than most people see in a lifetime (sometimes >50 per day; probably no more than 2000 per year though; for >decade; [working at baby & toddler groups]).

Could you say if this was a fixed behaviour (ie they always sought a private place to poop), had a fixed location (eg always behind the couch), if you used a potty at the time, and exactly which month it appeared at so I can note it with my own observations. Cheers.

A private place is often a good idea, so predators wont eat you when you are so vulnerable. There are many places where nakedness is the norm and the naked people will probably still search for private places when defecating.

Yes. Kids are taught to be ashamed of their bodies by their parents and society. And then teenagers are taught to be ashamed of sex. Some societies inculcate even more shame than others.

It's one tactic to try and avoid them 'accidentally' having sex at a young age (and getting pregnant and everything). I can kind of see everything, I mean on the one side sex ed is important, but if they can avoid attempting it for a few years until they're more well-rounded individuals it'll be a double bonus.

Mind you, I've very much been a late bloomer so my perspective is probably not representative.

haven't thought or heard the argument of the other side

I think this is a (the?) fundamental issue here; you're beginning from a place of needing to be told its OK to be naked near a child. That there needs to be a strong reason, a defensible argument just to have no clothes on near a child. There's an assumption in this thinking that by default, it's simply bad to be naked near a child - an assumption that's entirely cultural and learned. Cultures that don't have this hang-up don't have a strong argument for it - they just think it's crazy that your culture is so weird ("WEIRD", one might say) about it for no good reason.

What are your concerns about being naked around children?

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