Ask HN: Alternatives to Suicide? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Alternatives to Suicide?

I am struggling with my mental health, to the point I really need a radical change, which I’m not fit to properly decide at the moment.

My problem is that I’m not mentally fit to work anymore. I’m depressed, suffer from post-covid brain fog, and I’m really stressed and tired. But at the same time I can’t live with my parents because at their home is where my mental health deteriorates the most. I’m not rich to just leave my work and live on my own.

I’m considering either becoming a monk or committing a minor crime just to get in prison and don’t live there anymore. Any suggestion is welcome because my brain is not working as it should.

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If you need to talk to someone ASAP please call the suicide prevention hotline: 1-800-273-8255

If you have healthcare, please try to connect with a psychologist or other form of councilor. They can help, though it sometimes can take a few tries to find one you click with.

Mental health is tricky. I can offer ideas, but it’s hard to know what will help you. Throwing various ideas out there:

Exercise helps.

If you’re not getting enough sleep get more. Meds can help in the short term if your mental health is interfering with sleep. You can also look into melatonin (helps for some) if it’s falling asleep (vs staying asleep).

You can try various meditation apps as well as activities that let you get out or at least people watch (nature walk, hanging out at a busier park/cafe, etc.)

Would a more hands on activity or screen free hobby help? Maybe volunteering at an animal shelter, or other similar org.

I’m not sure where you are located or your finances but are there absolutely no other housing options? (Shelter, friend, Airbnb room).

Would a short getaway help? Camping is cheap if that’s your thing.

If I had the money I would do a sabbatical or something. I think resting could help but it should be long enough.

Sincere thanks for your answer.

Can you get ahold of some backpacking equipment? If you are not in immediate danger and you just need to get out of a rut, sweating your ass off for even just a few days in the middle of nowhere on a trail like one of these[0] can be therapeutic. Sunshine, fresh air and heavy exercise are all mood enhancers built in to your OS.

[0]https://www.pcta.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/National-Tra...

Might try next weekend something like that, thanks

Call a therapist and book an appointment. Any therapist, really. They might not end up being the right person to help you, but they can be the first person to help you, and guide you towards finding a long-term partner for your mental health.

As much as we are all clever here on HN, this isn't what we do for a living, and it is 100% what therapists do. They will be able to help.

+1 to therapists or suicide hot-line. I can empathize with you, mental health is a real thing and/or should be addressed by a proffesional.

Literally anything except violence. Ice cream, drugs, videogames, books, prostitutes, getting in shape. This seems like joking but really almost anything is better than dying when you don't need to.

The darkest times I've had what helped me was procrastinating anything that couldn't be undone, it's always an option later, and just knowing that I didn't have to make that choice today actually really helped.

But in your case if it's home life that's the problem and money that keeps you there, then step 1 is find a better paying job or adding a side hustle. Step 2 is to find a cheap place to live, probably a place that has like 8 roommates in a single house. Then once there pursue a skill-set that will let you significantly upgrade your economics, probably programming. Pursue fitness this whole time, because even if everything else in your life feels out of control you can at least control that one hour a day of working toward something, it will help.

But before any of that, find help, anyone, call someone, call a hot-line, see a shrink, reach out to an old friend or friendly relative.

I've been there before, keep going, it's worth it to keep going.

I have a very good friend who is struggling with mental health as well and his situation started to become worse since Covid-19.

As others already commented, please ASAP reach out to a professional. I don't know where you live, but I am very sure such a hotline exists pretty close to you.

My friend called such a hotline and he got help and he is better now.

I know this is a huge step to take, but reaching out will help and it is professionals taking care and they know what they do.

Whatever your circumstances are, someone will pick you up again.

Please call; there is no reason to feel embarrassed for whatever.

PS: I've been reading HN for years now and never commented here, but I just signed up now to reach out to you.

I did the same (signed up), please talk to someone.

I appreciate that. I don’t really have friends. And my parents and I don’t get along. Sometimes I talk to anonymous people in the internet and it does help but not sure if it’s enough.

You already made a big step by reaching out here in public on HN and this is very good.

Talking to anonymous people on the Internet is very likely not enough, as you already stated.

Again, I think you should talk to a professional and finding such a hotline - wherever you live - hopefully should not be that difficult.

Tell us your story.

> please ASAP reach out to a professional. I am very sure such a hotline exists pretty close to you.

Okay guys. Please. Stop suggesting professional mental healthcare as if it's something pretty much everyone has access to. In most US counties, therapy exists for those who can afford pricey insurance policies or can pay out of pocket - and that's it.

Some hotlines are staffed with mental health pros. NSP Lifeline is one. Smaller ones tend to be staffed with local volunteers. Either way, a hotline call isn't a solution. It's crisis intervention, at most a single step.

Honestly, for people who live without access to mental healthcare, telling them to just go get professional help is is effectively sending them on a snipe hunt.

source: 30 years care giving for someone with mental illness in one of the thousands of poor US counties.

5 years as social services volunteer

This answer suffers from Americentrism. Practically every country in the world has some form of accessible mental health care. OP did not include their location, so why assume they are American? Yes, it is true if OP lives in America then the healthcare situation is a lot more difficult, but OP would already know that. These hotline answers are helpful for other readers who may also not live in America and may be unaware that hotlines exist in their respective countries.

> Yes, it is true if OP lives in America then the healthcare situation is a lot more difficult, but OP would already know that.

Speaking of suffering observations. Why do you assume most people who live in areas without available mental healthcare are aware of that?

> Practically every country in the world has some form of accessible mental health care.

The language there qualifies any country with a therapist. I think what you meant is that the vast bulk of the population, in all 195 countries (excepting a handful), has reliable, practical access to mental healthcare.

As I consider African populations and folks who live in economically disadvantaged South and Central American nations I find myself filling with skepticism over that claim.

ref: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=state+of+mental+healthcare+in+Afri...

ref: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=state+of+mental+healthcare+in+Sout...

Thanks and full ACK to nexuist.

Are we here to help a human in struggle or are we more interested to discuss the level of (mental) health care in nation state XYZ in detail?

I commented to hopefully help the OP in struggle; regardless of the nation state the OP is living in.

Wherever the OP lives, I am very sure that there is INITIAL help very close for free in terms of money; wherever the journey will end and however it will look like.

Talking to someone will help. We are all human beings.

> I am very sure that there is INITIAL help very close for free in terms of money;

A hotline call (where available) can avert an immediate crisis but is not able to address underlying challenges. Recovery needs extended time with mental healthcare professionals. All indications are that most of Earth's population doesn't have access to that. For them, the advice of "Just Go Get That Free Help" isn't helpful.

I'm not saying we shouldn't help. I'm saying that assuming they have access isn't helpful - unless we actually know they do.

To be helpful, we need to ask if they know of services in their area. If they don't know, we can offer to look if they're willing to share their general location. If we strike out (not unlikely), we can learn more about them and their region - see if some obscure solution can be unearthed.

It takes time to provide the help that folks actually need.

(note: Evidence that most of our 7.8 billion have reasonable access to usable mental healthcare is absolutely welcome).

Thanks :)

You can try to rent a room on a shared house, student style. There will still be other people in the same house, but the change might be good.

You can try to live in a car/van, arrive to work earlier to use the facilities, use some coffeehouse wifi, etc... This is a bit of an adventure. It will also help to show your parents your commitment and level of distress.

Normaly job change helps. Sometimes you are to tied with the work issues it is just best to leave. In a new job there will be lower expectations, because you're starting, so it will feel good. And after it will give you a new perspective in life. And learn something new. Also you can possibly take a month off in between.

You can also try a career change, there are several no experience required, that are very good to take life slower a day at the time.

Also life is messy, with a lot of pressure and unrealistic expectations. And a lot of people, apparently living happy, are in a similar situation or worse. Maybe try to talk more with people around you, to get some more perspective. Even just talking somehow helps to reduce stress of situations.

You shouldn't do anything that will be permanent because there's a good chance this is a temporary problem.

Maybe you could spend some time camping on a bicycle/hiking/slow-walking trip? Basically being homeless, but in a healthy way. Come by your parents house as needed?

Reading ancient history and ancient primary sources is my most therapeutic-feeling form of mental escapism. Maybe it could help you to project your mind back a few couple years.

Of course, you should get someone to help you. Either friends/family and/or professionals. This is normal human problem stuff you're going through and it's okay to need help.

Don't let down that young version of you who had such high expectations. Take things one step at a time but try to be better than you were yesterday. How hard can it be to beat yourself tomorrow, if you are as bad off today as you say?

I don’t to have the focus to answer all of you but you are really helping. HN is a great community. Thanks a lot

It can be an alarming bit of advance, but consider this: You don't need to be happy all/most of the time. Happiness is especially ellusive if you focus on attaining it directly.

Read about ACT Therapy if you can - where I first learned this advice - it gets you to internalise this strategy to have a better relationship with feelings: Accept your inner experience (and be in the moment) Choose a course of actions based on things you decided you value Take action

We can't change the way we feel, at least not reliably, which means that its best to "accept" feelings (there's a specific meaning of "accept", and doens't mean you have to "like" your feeling), and we can almost always direct our attention. In almost any situation you have the power to _temporarily_ focus on something, and you can just keep diverting your attention, it's like a super power.

Separate to ACT, I've found mantra's such as the following helpful for dealing with strong episodes of emotion: Let it come. Let it be. Let it go. [Exhale slowly]

A much simpler one for a strong episodes of anxiety/sadness/dysphoria: "There's nothing I need to do about this" [At which point I usually choose something to do or think which is important to me].

In saying all of the above, some of your issues may be situational (or not, could just be an internalized playbook of beliefs), which is where getting professional help comes in, to help you work that out.

Some practical steps you might take once you have a strategy for managing your mental health: Look for an alternative living arrangement, a different (or same) job or pursuit (if not for supporting yourself financially, it will open up opportunities for social interaction and engagement). Figure out what things you value, or have valued in the past if you are too depressed to connect with that; then let these form a compass point for you.

Becoming a monk will probably mean you have to face yourself head on and you won't have conventional support - do not isolate yourself. Whatever you do, choose something that has a good chance of being absorbing and deisolating.

(While I may not have had your exact same conditions, I did felt the lowest in my life, before helping out in a farm)

> I’m considering either becoming a monk

Instead of "becoming", you could try to ask the temples, if they need help. I know people who go to temples, and they say, that there is always work to do. You would also get free veggie meals :)

Another option could be volunteer work on a farm, which I did. I attended a program, where you could help out families on farms for a week. They would give you shelter and food, and you would help them on their farm.

It tremendously help me out of my hole, and gave me a new perspective on life. I can expand on that, if you like. Just say so!

Presuming you’re in software, what could work is looking for remote gigs, losing location dependence and moving out at least for a while (there may be options if you’re willing to be frugal).

Freelancing marketplaces can get you usable leads—there is junk that can be identified with practice, but there also are respectable customers (at least on Upwork, in my experience). Monitoring opportunities, diving into new subject domains and writing proposals is a different activity compared to just creating software, but it’s possible to switch contexts every now and then.

It could help if there’s someone you know whom you can cooperate with, perhaps on flatshare and/or consulting work, but IME the above can be feasible alone.

I can understand the difficulty of living with parents. In my case the nature of gig work (ups and downs, having to hustle plus the necessity to pay rent), change of scenery, distance from the old social circle of family and school acquaintances were factors that somehow correlated with me gaining the will to keep doing things without always feeling like there’s no point to it.

First off, start looking at depression as a biochemical/hormonal imbalance in your body. Next, with this in mind, start looking for a cure. Will leaving the house more often help? Maybe, but not likely. What about antidepressants? Yes, that has a higher probability. For me, what got me off depression permanently after struggling for years was Testosterone Replacement Therapy.

I have always had the intuition that my testosterone levels were not high.

This is probably obvious, but you might want to get your yearly checkup at your doctors (GP). They'll probably take a blood sample and check 'levels'. Might give you a clue on how to proceed.

You are considering becoming a monk. You can take a first step towards this by visiting an Eastern Orthodox Church.

(Please folks, I have a great respect for therapists, as well as other secular forms of help. There are many wonderful aspects to people and organizations even if they are completely opposed to the church. This comment is not to the contrary of any form of help. Nor is it prescribing any beliefs or ethics upon anyone.)

OP - the Eastern Orthodox Church is a mystical religious organization who claims to have preserved the true teachings of Christ. Do not throw the first stone. Do not judge lest you be judged. Love your neighbour. Many people of all faiths aspire to live this way. I would say the Eastern Orthodox Church is a reliable place to find people who take the teachings seriously.

There is a great love for monasticism in orthodoxy. One famous monastery in Arizona St Anthony's. There is an idea "Every home is a monastery". We celebrate monks regularly during services and many people visit monasteries regularly.

I recently joined this church not having been raised in any church. After many attempts of trying to identify what's missing in my life - relationship, school, work, drugs - I reached a point of total desperation, and then after reading lots of spiritual books I found the orthodox church.

I'm very sorry to hear of your struggles. I hope you can find some help or meaning in this horrible time. I normally would not share this info because in 99% cases it makes things worse. You are asking for radical options and mentioned becoming a monk, so this time I'll bite.

If I may attempt to be encouraging for you in this difficult time. It's a sign of strength to be exploring radical options. To me it means you won't settle for a common trope that you know won't help. Not bending to common sense can get you in trouble sometimes, but I believe it's also the only way to the real truth.

Depending on where you live and/or work, you may have access to disability insurance. That can allow you to take enough time away from work to get some breathing room and get stabilized (I hate that word but can't think of an alternative right now) while still bringing in some money to pay your bills.

California, for instance, has SDI, which is pretty generous in terms of the kinds of conditions it will cover. Depending on how much you make it might not cover 100% of your wages, but it's also not taxable, so it comes out about even. I don't know much about other states, and even less about other countries; that's just an example.

You're getting a lot of good advice here, like others I also recommend reaching out to a therapist!

Sorry if it's a bit of an odd recommendation, but in the next few hours/days, while you wait for your appointment or any other changes you're making, I can recommend reading through "Feeling Good" by David D. Burns MD. It's a book on cognitive behavioural therapy and it helped me tremendously to cope with, and eventually recover from severe depression. I recommend it because it offered some immediate short-term relief just from reading through it once. There are copies lying around on archive.org.

I wish for you to recover!

> I also recommend reaching out to a therapist!

I think that folks who live in a healthcare-wealthy region or are healthcare-wealthy themselves don't understand that a sizable chunk of Americans have neither mental healthcare nor the resources to fund prolonged therapy out of pocket.

And free practical, usable, community mental health does exist - but - again, mostly in healthcare-wealthy regions. In most US counties, residents tend to lack access to reliable public mental healthcare.

Here is one suggestion - It is much, much cheaper to live outside of US. You might not be rich enough to take a break in US, but have you considered taking a break by moving somewhere else? South East Asia, South America, Mexico all come to my mind.

Taking time to relax is critical and we miss it out in all the rush. Just living with content is not expensive and it is a "monkish" lifestyle.

I'd like to riff off of the above poster's great comment.

Even taking an inexpensive trip through Mexico by bus (Autobuses ADO) and staying in hostels might effectively hit a 'reset' button.

If you've already had COVID, you don't have to worry about that, and climbing a few ancient pyramids, eating fried lime/salt crickets, and being surrounded by new sights, smells, and sounds at the tianguis might yank you out of your fog.

The first thing you should do is ask for help - give the folks at the Suicide hotline a call and ask. Here's the number: 800-273-8255

Anyone in this thread will tell you that what you consider is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I can tell you some things from the times and how I got out of my major depression.

Talking to a therapist will help as other tell you. But if you don't have access or resist to going to one:

-Find the cheapest private room with private bathroom apartment nearby. If you are in a big city in the U.S., they cost anywhere from $600 to $1200.

-Organize your room, organize your daily habits. Easy to say but keeping your room clean and laundry folded makes a huge difference.

-Organize your budget. Even if you are in debt, seeing what can be fixed will help. It is not entirely about your income. You can make $1000 working part time and still survive in the U.S. if you lower your expectations. Cut all the bullshit expense (hulu, netflix, spotify, starbucks etc.) and save every single dollar.

-Learn to calm your brain. Something like this can get you started. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOJTbWC-ULc I also listened to binaural beats for many months while meditating.

-Wake up early. Have organized sleep. Brain chemistry will be affected by your sleep dramatically.

-Do not interact with your negative friends.

-Eliminate loud noises around you. Human or non-human. Quiet environment means a calmer state of mind.

-Stop eating sugar. It is a drug.

-If you are smoking weed or another substance, they are not helping and cause you to think on overdrive with an altered state of mind.

-Finding a hobby helps. If you have a few dollars buy a drone, a 3d printer, a computerized telescope or whatever makes you entertain. Do it more organized than before. Even write about it on a blog or start a youtube channel about it.

-Cook your own food. When you shop, do not buy things because they will make you healthy etc. Buy only the things you eat and improve your eating habits gradually. I had so many lettuce and cabbages in the fridge with molds on them.

-Do no read the news for a while. News are for clicks and attention. World goes on without your news knowledge anyway. It will just frustrate and give you negative thoughts.

-Listen to music, preferably EDM. Don't listen to depressing emo stuff. They don't help your mind.

-Buy comfortable clothing. I am always wearing soft non-restrictive stuff (jogging pants, comfy shoes, tshirt + hoodie is a good style IMHO).

There are many more but I just looked around me to remember the things helped me and still helping.

Some alternatives in no particular order:

- exercise can improve your mood and self confidence. Be sure to not compare yourself to those already fit

- medication can be helpful. It really depends so you should consult a doctor.

- counseling is helpful. It might take a few tries to find someone who clicks though

I think it’s important not to compare yourself to others. Focus on yourself and celebrate small wins.

- I already do exercise. Now, not especially, but it has never made a difference for me. A couple of years ago I was in a very good shape and I still had recurrent depression episodes.

- I don’t have any specific diagnosis regarding my mental health so I don’t take anything.

- Could you elaborate on the counseling thing? You mean like a psychologist?

The last point is very good. However, I’m not really “competitive”. I just want to live in peace. Thanks for your answer.

Psychologist or other therapist. If you're religious (you did suggest becoming a monk), a member of your religion's priesthood or analog can be helpful as well, especially if there's any sort of "moral crisis" component to this.

Along with medications, cognitive behavior therapy (CBT) understanding is very well distributed through therapists these days. I've found it to be very effective for my own depression and anxiety issues, to the point that, for me, medication is not necessary. Even if you go down the medication route, CBT is still a great addition to medication and talk therapy in general.

You also mentioned having "post COVID brain fog", it's good that you recognize that at least part of the issue is external to your own self (though not to your own body and brain). As frustrating as something like that can be it's important to remember that it's temporary. I've discovered that I experience a similar long term brain fog after receiving general anesthesia which led to some exasperation in the past, but with understanding I can at least work through it now after surgeries. I had a surgery last August and basically lost most September-November to my mental recovery, but not as bad as previous surgeries where I didn't understand/know this about myself.

For the love of god, don't take mental health advice from strangers on the internet. Talk to a professional. Don't be afraid of medication. There is science (double blind studies) backing up anti-depressants as an effective way to reduce depression. It probably seems hopeless but a doctor will help you.

If you're seriously considering suicide, call the hotline linked in this thread.

The brain fog will lift. It'll take awhile. Working at a minimum-wage job is surprisingly fun compared to software. Of if you can't do that, there's disability. You'll be able to come back once the fog lifts.

Last time I got depressed I spent a year couchsurfing communes across the east coast of the united states to get everyone to attend a political protest on wall street. Whatever you do you have to be as extreme as possible.

I had depression and medication turned my life around. I take SSRIs. A more direct answer, along the lines of others, e.g. exercise, how about a cycle journey across your country? Just need a bike and a bivi bag.

REBT, wherein you can talk your brain to alternatives might help. Pick a source, and try it for few days / week / month and see if that works.

Well.. the obvious one: don't kill yourself. Assume you already died and this is the what-if-you-had-not version of things.

What sort of monk? I often flirt with the idea too. It's a better plan than prison for sure!

spend as little time on your computer as possible and as much time outdoors as possible.

I was in critical depression post covid. Couldn't work, think, find words. It took some time but it's past now. First huge improvement i had after moving out from old apartment, second unbevilably huge was Kambo cleanse followed by San Pedro and then Pejote. After this one weekend i was happy and feeling healthy.

I also reccomend BPC157 in pills. Lowers inflammation and heals wounds drastically. Also in nasal spray works wonders in healing brain post covid.

If you need someone to speak we are here, if you prefer it also in pvt as well

I have to ask the obvious about meds

I don’t have any diagnosis and I don’t take any pills. I do take vitamins for the post-covid effects.

Not going to give you another phone number because you seem to already have a few, and I know where you are right now.

Life is a series of experiences, you may wake up one day and look back, saying "thank you" to yourself for not ending it then. It's important to know how to "travel through time" and realize that life is combination of good and bad. We need both good and bad in order to be able to perceive good. Also, there is some truth to saying "suicide is a crime against future self".

Prison is a stupid idea, will ruin possibilities in the future, you never want your past to drag you down. But traveling or becoming a monk is definitely a better solution, more interesting than being stuck in one place with a bunch of dudes (I'm assuming you're male). The kind of people who end up in jail is usually naturally not high IQ. If you're using HN, it's very likely you are not going to fit in there, feel even more lonely at very least.

Life is an adventure, it always ends for everybody no matter if you want that or not. Paradoxically, it's one of the reasons to enjoy it.

Being depressed is a symptom, not a cause. I always view it as a good thing. When I get depressed I start changing things in my life, big time. Depression is a result of one's life being a nightmare, and I rather be aware of that than not. Do you know of those people who don't feel any pain? It sounds cool at first, but they burn themselves all the time and cannot feel symptoms of developing diseases (e.g. abdominal pains). So it's good to be depressed, that way you know your life sucks.

I remember when I wanted my life to end, I had no money to eat food, nobody to talk to, no prospects in life. Instead of looking for help and losing the rest of respect I had for myself or going to a shelter, I ended up being homeless. I can tell you that I never felt happier and freer in my life than during that time. Quickly I managed to find a job and slept in the office for 7 months. While being homeless I showered at the gym; that made me work out every morning, sometimes twice a day. I truly felt alive, my life was my own. I looked back at my life a year ago and it really occurred to me how unhappy "normal" lifestyle is, and how shitty people generally are. I promised to build my life around what makes me happpy, not around other people or what's considered "normal" or "good".

Watch Into the Wild, the story of that person inspired me a lot.

Will leave you with two quotes:

"Through every dark night, there's a bright day after that."

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."

(That second one I always assumed to be corny and stupid, until learned how much negative impact idiots can make on you in life if you don't cut them off quickly).

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