Failed entrepreneur, broke, unemployed, now taking care of aging parents. Help. | Hacker News Reader

Failed entrepreneur, broke, unemployed, now taking care of aging parents. Help.

236 pointsmattman140 comments

TL;DR - My startup failed, I'm now broke and unemployed, I have no idea who I am anymore professionally, and had to move back to the middle of nowhere to take care of my aging parents. I don't want to get stuck living this life. How do I fix all this?

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Hello HN,

As a long-time reader of HN I would greatly appreciate some advice and/or suggestions of how some of you would deal with this situation. I'd like to believe that as an entrepreneur that I can find solutions to problems but at this point I have to admit I'm a bit shaken. What would you do if this were your situation?

1) I'm a failed startup entrepreneur fighting my way back out of depression, spiritless-ness, and massive debt. I've also been unemployed for over 1.5 years now due to a loss of identity and overall purpose. I have no life savings left to try and squeeze my out of this situation.

2) Concurrently, I had to move back home to a relatively inactive area - no tech scene, no innovators, no night life, no forward-thinking, no excitement. People here are content with 9-5 jobs and staying home at night (edit, removed: want their safe, comfortable, 9-5 jobs, and their must-see-TV at night). There is no ecosystem to help drive and create new things. Local city and business "leaders" I talk to about doing something politely nod their head in agreement but it never leads to anything.

3) I had to move back home to manage my aging parents. They're in their mid-70's, and are starting to need assistance. They are in violent denial that anything needs to be changed, planned, or managed. They will never move, won't help plan for the future, and are constantly and consistently negative about every situation. It's becoming harder and harder to stay levelheaded and sane in such an environment.

4) My entire family suffers from social anxiety disorder and have no friends/extended-family/neighbors whatsoever - zero, zip, nada. This makes life planning almost next to impossible as all new ideas are immediately shot down due to stubbornness, ignorance, or fear. This leaves me with no support at any level in trying to plan for their future quality-of-life in terms of finances, insurance, health care, moving, and attempts at basic human interactions.

5) Net effect, I'm trapped, unfocused, and drowning in guilt. If I relocate in an attempt to find work I leave my troubled family behind and will become the "one who abandoned them." No one is fair enough to comprehend the planning I've done so far (estate, health, day-to-day care, etc). If I stay, I'll lose more and more of my professional momentum and personally run the risk of falling deeper into depression.

I know my objective perspectives are probably a bit skewed at this point, so my goal is to get a clear head as soon as possible, and get back into the ring. Have any of you had similar stories or experiences? How did you go about fixing it?

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Here's what you need to do.

1 - Practice humility and drop the attitude. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. 2 - Come up with a plan to have a net worth of $0 in 18-36 months -- owe nobody anything. If that is impossible to conceive of, make sure that you are exploring all avenues -- including bankruptcy. 3 - Get off the couch. Establish social connections. Go to church. Volunteer somewhere. Join a book club. Work in a coop. Do something. 4 - Build your relationship with your parents. Don't "manage" them. Easier said than done, of course. 5 - Work. Anywhere.

Sorry to sound like an asshole. Live for the present and don't worry about the future until you have fixed some of the stuff going on now.

Print out your post. Your goal shouldn't be starting a company -- on December 8, 2011 you should be able to look back on today and be able to say that life is better, and that you refuse to go backwards again.

Seriously. What keeps OP from working anywhere with an internet connection? I would see this as a massive opportunity to learn various skillsets.

I know you mean well, but I have to disagree with your approach. Telling him to "stop" and "drop the attitude" is like telling an drug addict to "stop being such an addict".

It does not work.

It is a form of a "should statement" (a cognitive distortion) http://daphne.palomar.edu/jtagg/should.htm

In my comment above I listed a book to combat this.

Of anything said here THIS is the advice to listen to. He speaks the truth.

"People here want their safe, comfortable, 9-5 jobs, and their must-see-TV at night. There is no ecosystem to help drive and create new things."

Considering your situation, a stable 9-5 sounds like a better option for you than a new and risky venture.

Yes I actually agree with you. I should have provided better context: 9-5 meaning that people here are mostly content with what they have. They aren't out and about in the city looking to build new ventures, take risks on big, unproven ideas, etc.

You do not need to be building a new venture, or taking risks, or trying out unproven ideas. You need to get a job and make money so you and your family don't starve to death.

It sucks that you're in a place where nobody shares your motivation, but you still need to eat.

I don't think this is helpful. He can provide for his family with out a "9 to 5". He could contract remotely, for example. And he could work on side projects with an eye to the future, which would help keep his spirits up through this period.

I think the important message isn't that a job is from 9am to 5pm, but that you have a job that pays a regular paycheck based on hours worked. mattman is not in a situation to not be making any money.

They aren't out and about in the city looking to build new ventures, take risks on big, unproven ideas, etc.

Is it really like that in SF? I've never lived there, only visited; and almost got mugged at a gas station.

The description reads like a fairytale or wishful thinking. I hope I'm wrong, though, because that would be amazing.

if you get into the start-up scene, it really is like that. A lot of those people are just talking shit, however. lots of hype, less execution.

Sometimes I get that sense but these days it seems everyone i meet sold everything back home (a bunch of them European) and moved to the bay area. Most of them took. A short trip first and decided that the scene was infinitely better.

If you go to entrepreneur events, it's definitely a reality. I've been part of the scene for about 1.5 years and there are countless meet up group/events for new tech. There are coworking spaces that litter a certain part of SF. In Palo alto, I often run into entrepreneurs I've met at other events. At certain cafes, they are loaded with people hacking.

Sideline topic: Yeah, I can't handle these types of crowds, even though I really need to find a co-founder. I can't go to these specifically because of all the talking of sh__ that goes on. I'm afraid many people in the startup scene may think they will be the next best CEO in the world, so they go to these events and typically spend the entire time droning on with enough business/tech-laced hot air you could fill a balloon with it big enough to have saved the Titanic from sinking. But, when it comes to rolling up sleeves and getting things done...well...crickets.

Right now, is it more beneficial for you to be solving big problems or little problems?

Sounds like those people would like more media, like movie rentals.

Buy a redbox machine? Start a rental store?

Start a video rental store? In the age of Netflix?

I have a netflix account but I still use redbox from time to time. It's nice picking up groceries and a movie on a Friday night. The $1.50 is pocket change and means a movie night doesn't have to be scheduled a week ahead of time.

Sure, maybe he lives in a remote location with crappy internet service. with Blockbuster going down it's a perfect time to offer friendly customer service and enlightened selection.

Or, like I said, buy a vending machine.

No pr0n on Netflix.

Porn is free now, didn't you get the memo?

Sounds like it's time to start from 0.

Location: You need to move far enough away from your parents that you don't struggle with their every decision, but close enough to react to an emergency.

Parents: Do NOT attempt to rule their lives. They don't want it and you won't convince them. They have to figure it out for themselves.

Job: You need to settle down and find a 9-5 job. You have nothing with which to start another risky venture, so you need to find a way to pay the bills while you recoup.

Innovation: Feel free to innovate on the side, but pay the bills first.

The upside of starting from rock bottom is there is only one way to go. UP!

You are a very strong person - give yourself a huge amount of respect for having the courage to write this.

Reading this has brought back a whole lot of painful memories - I have been almost exactly where you are. Though exact circumstances were different, I know how it feels to be trapped between two unmovable forces.

When I was there, I started giving myself homework assignments. Basically, I turned self care into an entrepreneurial endeavour. For example, I literally forced myself to:

- start training for a marathon (Kanamekun gave you some amazing advice - physical exercise increases both dopamine and serotonin levels)

- start lifting weights three times a week (strength training is a great tool as you see small improvements constantly. For me, it was also a great opportunity to let out a lot of anger)

- keep a (private) journal and write a minimum of 500 words a day. Sometimes, my 500 words consisted of, "I hate my life and I want to die" repeated over and over again until I hit 500.

- start working on one small project that I always dreamed of doing but never had the time

Needless to say, I was in a really bad place and, if you want brutal honesty, I can say that I am a little surprised that I came out the other side. I found that these four pieces of homework built momentum and eventually I had enough momentum to get out of the pit.

Best of luck, I will be thinking about you, and if you need someone to talk to, just ask and I will put up some contact information.

You're strong and you're not alone.

A few observations:

- Your post is a little judgmental of the people living this area. 9-5 jobs are nothing to be ashamed of and wanting to watch TV after a hard day isn't necessarily a fault. If I were a business leader in this area I'm not sure I'd be interested in working to fix this if such a thing is even possible or desirable.

- What is your skillset? Are you a programmer? If so then you should be able to find work anywhere, you could work remotely, or start a business.

Doing something out of guilt is nothing I'd ever recommend. If you were doing this out of love then maybe this might make sense.

1) Re: 9-5 - Thanks for catching that. My frustration came through on that a bit. I changed the wording.

2) Re: skills - I do everything but program. And by everything I mean everything - funding, prod dev, marketing, sales, operations, strategy, etc.

Great point about not doing something driven by guilt. Thanks for your feedback.

Is it possible that you actually can't really do those things if your startup failed? In other words, is it possible you're representing having skills that you don't actually have? (It reads to me as if you have a willingness to practice those skills, though they aren't well developed.) Maybe it's time to honestly evaluate where you're at and invest some time into personal growth and development. You will reduce cognitive dissonance and through surrender to the mastery process some of your depression will be ameliorated.

Really good point, how do I go about achieving this? I'd like to believe that I have the skills, insights, strength, and endurance for all these things, but yet, I have to accept the reality that so far it has gotten me nothing. I'm open to change/learning - if my family weren't an issue I'd go anywhere in the world to learn, reboot, start over, grow, etc.

Important edit: I recommend buying books if you can afford it. Many reasons for this. One, it's fun to receive packages in the mail. I get a rush every time I rip a package open. Two, it's good for the ego. It helps you keep perspective on how much you've been reading. Three, you can underline the books as you read them, this can be VERY helpful. Unfortunately I do not recommend loaning books to friends, you will never get them back.

Awesome! You can start by reading 1 book a week, which is an aggressive but doable goal. To some it may not sound like much but if you have not been making a habit of reading regularly, it will take you a while to get back into it. In a year you will have read 52 books. I am of the belief that compound interest is most effective when you have staggering sums of money. It is second most effective when it comes to knowledge.

Amazon will sell you books for cheap, but there are many business classics that will probably be available at the local library. I bet your local library will at least have one of these seven books:

How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie

Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill

Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey

{anything} by Seth Godin

Positioning by Al Ries

Getting Things Done by David Allen

21 Laws of Leadership by John Maxwell

Reading books can be a useful starting point, but by themselves they won't get you those skills. They're called skills for a reason: you have to practice them.

I'll repeat the advice out of one of Peter Drucker's books: the only way to really improve in life is to feed back from actions to results. Try to do something. When you fail (and you probably will, the first time), take an honest look at your performance, and identify one thing that you could've done better. Then do it again, but this time do that one thing differently. Did you get better results? If so, find something else you could've done better, and practice that next. If not, do it differently again, and measure the results. Repeat until you're doing everything awesomely. You have now mastered the skill.

I am still working at finding the right process for absorbing information and integrating it into habit.

How's life at Google?

You do realize that startups fail for any number of reasons. Founder's not having all the necessary skills may be a contributing factor, but I would be willing to wager quite a bit that it is not a leading cause.

"Sales fixes everything" - Guy Kawasaki

I was going to recommend that living with the parents might free up some time to hack out a new idea, but I see you aren't a developer. As such, I'll suggest a non-programming idea: rebuild the old version of Techcrunch. Write a blog about cool startups. Actually use the products, provide screenshots and reviews. Don't write about Apple,Google,Facebook,Twitter, or funding rounds greater than 1 million. I promise you'll have at least 1 reader ;)

Why not take the time to learn to hack? What with all the internet resources out there, IRC, mailing lists, and whatnot, it doesn't really matter where you are, and some 'peace and quiet' would be good for the concentration you'll need.

At that point, maybe you can have a go at doing something along the lines of "Start Small, Stay Small":

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003YH9MMI?ie=UTF8&tag=...

The idea being that with a niche product, it's not going to be an all-or-nothing venture, and you'll be able to run it just fine from wherever you are - no need to be somewhere where startups are 'hip' and you can recruit 30 people after you get your millions in funding.

Move close in but not with your parents, get a job, and learn programming -- it's very empowering. I had one of my friends over that is doing just that. Six months back when he started he was quite bleak, but now he's close to $0, and on a roll. He seemed not tense for the first time since I've known him.

What is the best way to go about starting to learn programming if you do work a 9-5? I am finishing school and paying for a website to be designed right now but would love to learn more...

The things I have done are to start a side project or find something at work I can write a program to help with.

practice, practice, practice

don't just read, but write too

Think of something simple you'd like to make and learn whatever you need to make it. Perhaps a small but useful widget for your website. Attachment to a creative vision can motivate you in a way that tutorials and classes cannot.

I lost my job in PR earlier this year and used the several months of non-employment to laser focus on becoming a professional programmer. I got my first job doing so last month.

If you don't know who you are professionally, it's probably because your heart isn't in whatever it is you do. Quit feeling sorry for yourself and learn to program.

I've been here before and it's a tough place to be!

I've found a useful first step is to try and regain a sense of control over your life. When your focus is trying to influence others (i.e. your parents, potential employers), it's easy to feel like you have no control over anything. That is a recipe for learned helplessness and depression: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

Is there one thing that you can control? It could be blogging every day, it could be going on a run every day (which does wonders for fighting depression!), it could be anything. Whatever it is, it has to be something that you can control and can successfully accomplish without having to get the buy-in of others.

Good luck!!

I second this. The way out of a depression is by regaining your confidence. You can do this with "small wins" that lead to bigger wins and eventually the self confidence to take on the world.

Working out/Getting in shape has the added benefit of reducing stress and produces endorphins helping you feel happier.

But it could be anything. Reading a book, taking a class, solving a puzzle, etc.

Thanks for the learned helplessness link. I'll look into that more.

As for exercise, I take walks, bike, etc. The thing I'm missing the most are having other like minded people around to share ideas and progress. But maybe I need to look into building a small Skype-based network for this, or something similar.

Wow! Extremely low cost of living and close to your family. The opportunities are boundless!

A perfect time to build an app, write a book, learn new skills. Cherish this time. Squeeze every opportunity out of it like it was a wet blanket filled with golden drops.

You don't have to be in San Francisco to get started. Do it from a barn! We're here if you need us.

I totally agree with erikstarck. This is actually an amazing opportunity -- when you get past the whole "being poor" thing. (Good news is that we're in a recession, so there aren't any Joneses to keep up with.)

Now that you've had your cry and been flooded with support from HN, start the next phase of your life. The Starting from Scratch Phase. If you're having a hard time seeing your options clearly, pretend you're someone else and assess your life from their perspective. Like, what would Paul Graham do? Or what would a single mom do? Your life is filled with options. You just can't see them right now.

So don't feel unemployed. Feel liberated. ...Or feel like smacking me for being optimistic when you're down and out. :) Sending love and hope your way...

I just got back from McDonalds since $1 McChicken is all I can afford to eat.

This is the taste of liberation. Mmm.

Learn how to cook. You only need some very basic, and very cheap, ingredients to make amazing food. By improving your diet, you will improve both your physical and mental health.

You will also save money. For example, tomatoes, onions, beans, chilies, rice, and spices run about $5 total, and with that you can make a gigantic bucket of vegetarian chili packed with vitamins and complete proteins. Add meat for a better amino profile, and the total will only hit about $8.

I've been struck down by crippling depression before, and had to build back up. The three things that made recovery possible were a good diet, exercise, and a project to focus my mind on.

The diet helps you keep your body from going to hell, the exercise provides a surprising amount of calm, and the project gives your mind something to do so that you don't dwell too heavily on that which you can not change.

Also grow your own vegetables in the garden. It's not only cheap, it has also no pesticide pollution, tastes much better and is very healthy because it's fresh. But the most important thing is the psychological effect: You seed, you care, you work on it, you watch it growing and then you harvest and eat your own effort. That's like beeing an entrepreneur on a small scale. Build on this positive experience and grow to bigger tasks.

I would just like to add that starting an organic is not cheap. It's cheaper than, for example, scuba diving or photography. But gathering the materials to get started was a more than I anticipated at first. Just like produce, the chemical free, organic stuff (soil, fertilizer, seeds) cost more than the general stuff. But you only have to do this once, after that it's just the recurring cost of maintaining it.

But it is wonderful to be out in the sun, eating stuff I grew fresh.

"starting an organic is not cheap"

You mean garden, right? Not farm? A garden is very much a kind of "do only as much as you feel like doing" kind of thing.

I have a mini garden, which I suppose is more or less organic by default, because I don't fertilize (or buy soil for that matter), with chemicals or otherwise. I had a big compost bin already -- it was there when we moved in -- so I dumped a bunch of the soil from the bottom of that into some planters, plugged in seedlings for tomatoes and peppers from the supermarket plus a few basil plants, and just watered those now & again. At one point I put in stakes and tied the plants to them to protect them from getting blown over, but otherwise that was all the work (beyond harvesting the veggies when they were ready).

We also have fruit trees and berry bushes, which are even better -- it doesn't work out every season (sometimes there's a late frost that kills the cherries, etc.) but every year we get at least something -- sometimes an overwhelming amount of either cherries, apples, figs, kiwis, raspberries, red currants, and some other kind of berry who's name I can never remember but is sort of like a big raspberry. It's important to pick trees/bushes that are relatively "native" to your area so they won't require much care (our fig is a bit too far north for its liking, unfortunately, so the fruit isn't often ripe in time), but otherwise it's easy going.

Final note: ideally find a neighbor or two who already has a garden going. You can research how to grow anything online, but there's such a glut of information -- often focused on people with more spare time than you may have, and often based on a different region than yours -- that it's much easier if you have someone local you can ask for advice.

No, this is the taste of upcoming medical problems.

Though I agree with the sentiment, this is a lot easier to say when external to the problem. Much of it is about fixing or changing lifestyle and behaviour, and in such cases it may be easier to go for "safe" wins, such as a day job, with certain and known results (positives such as known income, and the negative such as web-app/startup opportunity cost) and building up and moving forward before re-exposing one self to risk (esp as it is similar as per his situation before).

The higher risk 'do another startup' could be the way to go, but in such an environment/situation, I fear this perhaps is only shying away from underlying problems and hence it is better to take safe route and fix them first.

Yeah your situation right now sounds awful. Its tough to be under-appreciated by people whom you're trying to help. Here are a few things to try.

0. Put your email in your profile so people can email you suggestions/work/jobs privately.

1. Get ANY locally available job just to get out of the house regularly and interact with people and start earning some $. Then start looking for something you like or enjoy etc. Do you have any skills people buy on ODesk or other places?

2. Start exercising daily. Don't need a gym membership to be effective. Google "body weight exercises."

3. Spend some time (an hour-ish doesn't have to be continuous) outside every day. It can be anything but you could walk dogs for a nearby humane shelter or whatever.

4. What area? I assume USA. How close to an "active" area? Or at least a not-dead-area? The local guys probably aren't against it but more likely have no idea how to start/be successful and don't want to look foolish or fail.

5. If you don't have on spend $5 and get an account on ask.metafilter.com and ask specific questions about your parents anonymously to a wider audience than HN.

6. Maybe this can give you some concrete ideas the local guys can understand: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2566026

I'm going to be harsh. Please don't take it personally, my perspective is obviously limited.

I'd think 1.5 years of unemployment, being broke and a failed start-up would make you more humble. Yet everyone else seems to be the problem. Your parents don't understand, fellow business owners don't understand, no one understands your fabulous planning, no one has your passion, ...

Have you looked for work? Applied to jobs? Since you don't mention any of it, I get the sense that you wouldn't consider a minimum wage job at a restaurant or retail or something like that. Shame on you, man up, man has to feed his family.

Also, you should be nicer to your parents. Read point #3 again, and it almost sounds like you are describing yourself. Negative about everything? Not planning for the future? Refusing to accept change is needed? That's you!

This is what you do: You check your ego at the door, get a job, and take pride that you are helping your family out. While people are watching their TV (which you have contempt for, even though they've done more than you have in the last 1.5 years), you regain your passion and try again.

It's simple.

> Also, you should be nicer to your parents. Read point #3 again, and it almost sounds like you are describing yourself. Negative about everything? Not planning for the future? Refusing to accept change is needed? That's you!

This is something I think most of us have to face up to at some point, often with a bolt of shocked denial when the realization hits.

I've been in very similar situations, except I did not turn my life over to the ones I was helping. If you have shown someone how to organize their money (a dubious enterprise with people in their 70's who have never done so), and have helped them access social services, then please feel free to leave and not feel guilt. The family members I helped in this way could go along for months with no apparent crises; as soon as I arrived to help them with some specific effort, I was presented with an avalanche of emergencies: illnesses, broken appliances, unpaid bills, conflict with neighbors, etc. After spending a week getting those issues resolved, I was hit up for a return visit to handle the original purpose of my visit. Each visit was a new list of crises. When the crisis culminated in the death of our uncle, we "airlifted" our handicapped nephew out of there and into our home and left the rest of the family to fend as best they could. Guess what? Without us there to help, they managed to get on disability and other forms of welfare and are doing OK. If you have the time, means and inclination to deal with people like that, do it; if not, no one outside of the family will blame you for taking care of yourself.

Sounds like you need to get down to earth. I'm going to make a pretty weird suggestion but - you live in a small town right? People have lawns that need mowing, weeding to be done, cars need washing, windows need to be cleaned, odd jobs needed around the house. There is plenty of work to be done.

Rather than thinking startup, funding, business, figures blah blah blah just get out there and start being useful to your community. You'll make friends, you'll get exercise and become more healthy, you'll make some money and you'll give yourself time to think things through.

Give yourself 2 full years. See how much money you can make and save in this time. If you're suffering from crippling debt, talk to a debt consultant or financial advisor to find out about your options. Bankruptcy is not the end of the world (although I'm not sure about how things are in the US, I've known folks here in Australia who declared bankruptcy and it was the best thing they ever did).

In short, shake things up and do something completely different. Engaging with your community is a fantastic way to overcome your social anxieties, also.

I think you need to remind yourself that life can be simple - and that all of your fears and anxieties are more ephemeral than you realise.

I just accidentally deleted my post, but here's a rewrite.

Constraints: - little/no capital required. - location independent, or available at your current location. - must provide enough income to service/remove debt. - should provide a routine.

Assets: - can do "everything but coding", with most experience in a tech sector - a reasonably large amount of free time.

Possible opportunities: - sales, for either a local or a remote company, either in-person or on-line. any product. - consulting (niche yourself and show you're really good at one of your many skills, and pick something that can be sold without always being at the client site.) - what else can you do?

I'm attempting to strip away the emotional baggage from the situation, to make it easier to see what might be possible. Maybe that could help.

1. Massive debt: http://www.thesimpledollar.com/

2. The Internet.

3. Parents: http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/01/29/financial-independ...

4. You are not responsible for your family's well-being. You can try to help, but not if it costs you your health/...

5. You can help them better if you're doing well.

It sounds like your family is trying to drag you down to their level.

Lots of good advice here and hope you can benefit from them. My 2 cents:

Find someone who's in a much worse situation than you are - start talking to them regularly, become friends. Ideally, this 'someone' would be a single woman (it's my understanding that you're single) who's around your age. Start from here, and things will change. Patience is an absolute must (the 'as soon as possible' in the last para tells me this could be hard for you, but there's no way around it).

I'd add one more thing I learnt over the years - the strongest, the most tenacious and steel-willed people are those who have something to protect. I'd suggest you find some time to figure out what exactly you want to protect. It could be a person, it could be values, anything that you love but will not survive without you. Once you have something to protect, you'll be able to work your way out of tough situations on your own.

Wish you the best.

Your situation with your family sounds terrible, but I think one important thing you should realise is that you are NOT responsible for their well-being. The desire to help is both understandable and laudable, but you should not confuse it with obligation.

Ultimately each of us makes our own choices about our lives (even if that choice is to depend upon others - many make that choice without consciously realising it), and in this case it sounds like your family are choosing not to improve their situation, and also trying to make your life choices for you. I have a friend with similar familial issues and from experience I would suggest that you at least enforce some boundaries so that you can live your own life successfully, and if they won't play along with that, consider that you may have to leave them to fend for themselves and forge your own path elsewhere.

We only get one, short life - please don't spend it in the service of people who don't appreciate what you're giving them, or actively obstruct your efforts to help and improve your own lot.

Their situation is NOT YOUR FAULT. Repeat that every day until you believe it - if you want to help them, of course do so, but make it a matter of choice and try to do it in a way that doesn't ruin your own life.

I think you need to take care of yourself before you can take care of others. Even if you are very close to your parents and don't want to "abandon" them, the most immediate thing you can do is find a job that will give you financial and mental stability - you probably underestimate what it is you are able to bring to a company, and if you are willing to start somewhere with a clean slate there are probably a lot of job opportunities around. You'll then be in a much stronger mental state, and will be able to look for ways to a)help them transition to a retirement home b)pay for someone to help them take care of themselves c)incorporate them into YOUR life, by inviting them to live with you in the future for example. You need to find a purpose for your own life, and it is clear that you do not share the same "apathy" which you are finding in this new environment - therefore staying there can only lead to disappointment. If in the short-term this means disappointing your parents, as sad as it is to say, they won't be around for ever, and disappointing yourself will have a much longer-lasting negative impact. Take care.

I am really sorry to hear this, your situation sucks. However, as others have said, you are doing the right thing.

Are you a developer? If so, even if you aren't great (and you're probably better than you give yourself credit for) you'll be able to find a job in a "hot" enough market. You may want to consider doing this: taking a job in an area that has more options available / better pay, and commuting every week. You can live at your parents' during the week (+1/2 days a week), and rent a cheap apartment (or a shared room) in the target area during the week.

That lets you accumulate savings, which should give you further options. Pick a job with strong prospects for technical growth (that should give you further confidence) and an adequate salary that should let you save.

The problem with this approach is that there is cost to commuting every week (you'll have to calculate it and take it into account, but it will likely be tax deductible), cost to renting an apartment or room in the target area (however, you can really minimize it, as you have your parents' place for the weekend).

mattman, I have been through something very similar. I'm a long time developer who has made great sacrifices to put my own plans on the back burner and move back to my hometown to care for my mother with Alzheimer's. It is the most important thing I've ever done. We are both doing exactly the right thing. You should be proud.

A few thoughts...

I have no idea who I am anymore professionally

You are the same person you've always been. You have lost nothing. It may not seem that way right now because you haven't exercised your work muscles for a while, but what we do, like riding a bike, is NOT forgotten. It just needs to become active again. Once you start working again, you will remember pretty much everything and you will most definitely remember who you are professionally.

In addition, one of the most important qualities for anyone in our field is not just what we know, but how well we can learn new stuff. You have already done this; you will do it again. Your skills may become a little outdated but it doesn't matter. You will learn new stuff just like you've done many times before.

I had to move back home to a relatively inactive area - no tech scene, no innovators, no night life, no forward-thinking, no excitement.

Ten years ago, this may have been a problem, but now you can let the wonders of modern technology help overcome a lot of these issues. Use Hacker News for your tech scene, innovators, and forward-thinking. Frankly, these things are overrated in real life. Not so sure about night life; you'll have to find a way to solve that one.

If you have too much trouble finding appropriate local work, remote options are wonderful for people like you and me. Use one of the many remote opportunity posts here on Hacker News to find something. Anyone reading this with a remote opportunity for mattman should contact him off-line to explore the possibilities. mattman, you should fill out your profile to help others help you.

As far as your parents are concerned, please understand that there are incredible options available to you and your family. Attendants can come to your home. There are wonderful adult day care centers. And most importantly, assisted living and nursing homes are NOT to be avoided; they should be embraced if they are the appropriate option. Moving my mother into a nursing home was the best thing we ever did for all concerned. We just didn't realize it until after we had to make the move.

There must be all kinds of resouces in your community, including financial. You just have to go out and find them. Your parents are your new start-up. Your goal is NOT to take care of them; it must be to be an entrepreneur and put people in place to do that for you. I don't know where to start in your community, but get started. Ask anyone and have them point you to the help and the money you are entitled to. We all paid in for this; now is the time for you to use it for what it was intended. Don't let your parents talk you out of what you must do, the roles have been completely reversed. Now is the time for tough love. Do what you must to make this successful for everyone.

Forget about the rest of your family. If they can support you, great. If not, ignore them. They don't matter. Please understand that this advice comes from hard-earned experience. Don't make the same mistakes as me and expect more from others than you're likely to receive.

You are doing the right thing and you will come out of this stronger than ever. Keep your head up, do what you have to do, and eventually get your life back. Contact me off-line if you wish.

Best wishes, mattman!

  fill out your profile

Mattman, in case you're not aware, the email field in your profile is invisible. If you want to allow people to contact you, please add it to "about" textbox.

I have no specific advice for you. But I do want to cheer you on. Good luck and know that many of us are sending you our best wishes

_Books for dealing with the emotional stress_

Also the following books helped me to get my mind straight about all this:

1. The Art of Happiness by HH Dalai Lama and Howard C Cutler 2. The New Earth - Eckhart Tolle

You'll realize that comparing your life the outward projection of other peoples lives is pointless and is mostly useless.

Also the most important thing that you'll realize is that suffering is in your mind. And is something you can control.

_Books on how to care for Alzheimers patients_

Some books I HIGHLY recommend to figure out how to care for your parents and for yourself:

1. Alzheimers - Early Stages by Daniel Kuhn 2. The 36 hour day by Rabins et al.

3. The Anti-Alzheimers Prescription by Vincent Fortanasce. (This is not really anti anything but goes through modalities that _could_ reduce alzheimers in the future.)

To get an idea of what an alzheimers parent is going through you could read: Alzheimers from the inside out by Richard Taylor.

_Dangerous Drugs_

Also the 2 drugs that might get prescribed and that you would want to watch out for because of abnormally high rates of deaths in the trails are: 1. Reminyl(Galantamine) 2. Donepezil 23mg dosage. (The 10mg dosage doesnt seem to have had any side effects for my dad in the last 2 years).

_Personal Situation_

My dad has Alzheimers too. Right now he seems to be able to live on his own. We handle all his taxes, medicines, doctors visits etc.

My dad's case is made worse by him living in a village in rural India. And he vehemently will not leave. Electricity is only present for about 19 hours a day and water only for 4 hours a day. This makes it much more interesting a problem. :) But he is a pretty amazing guy having gone from a village to an engineering degree and high ranking navy officer so he's a got fighting spirit which I think helps him.

(Interestingly theres wireless internet here for 24 hours a day!)

_Other Thoughts_

I absolutely agree with edw519 - you cant expect any help from anyone but you can ask. You'll be surprised by people who will be willing to help. You have to become part of the community you are in. You dont have to even tell them about your parents until you've known them for a while.

Also I think in the US there is a lot of support you can get from local organizations. The Alzheimer's Book number 1 recommendation above lists a lot of helpful resources that could be useful even if your parents dont have alzheimers.

_Practical Advice_

1. Create a strict regimen for your parents. Something they can do on their own. As edw519 says, use attendants, nurses, adult day care etc.

2. Make time for yourself. And use this time to start applying for remote jobs or take on simple work from sites like RentACoder etc.

_Bottom Line_

You arent missing out on ANYTHING. Every friend of yours will have to deal with aging parents at one point or another. Or worse they've already lost theirs. You are able to get some quality time with these people which I think you are lucky to be able to do.

I dont know at what stage your parents are but I aired out all my past grievances with my dad and its made our relationship that much more stronger. I admire him a little bit more now.

Dads situation has also brought my whole family closer.

_My Contact_

You can contact me at railsnoob at yahoo dot com if you like for whatever - just to vent (I always feel like venting after a few days iwth dad :) ... or talk about our experiences or anything.

You need to get a fresh start. I think regardless of the situation (although yours may be more extended), we all have a sense of guilt for "abandoning" people, but you have to realize that you can't help anyone unless you help yourself first. I do have my own story, but it's not something I want to publicly share, though I'd be happy to tell you over skype if you really want to know.

Bottom line is... you can stay around and try to fix things, but your chances for success are low. I have a philosophy in life: Never stay in a place where you're too happy or unhappy. Happiness brews complacency, and unhappiness breeds distrust and hopelessness. I don't know your skill set, but I'd suggest moving somewhere, working to save up, and then restarting your life. The hard part is getting past the loss of time.

Matt -

I have "succeeded" (helped lead a company to acquisition), but I have also failed many times over and run myself in to significant debt with more recent ventures. Never Give Up

I hit days when nihilism gets the best of me, and I think "why am I doing this?" The solution is surprisingly simple, in some cases:

Get exercise, get vitamins, and get caffeine.

Proper exercise and vitamins will give you energy and reduce depression. Caffeine will get your mental gears turning and pump up your adrenaline - it will give you fuel to burn and motivation to burn it - try to limit yourself to 200 mg/day at most though. If you face more significant depression, go to a psychiatrist and they may prescribe you Prozac or an equivalently "harmless" drug. Depression is a mental sickness that we don't often realize we have.

It's difficult, but you really need to move your parents to where you can get a good enough job to support and care for them. If your main concern is money, being willing to move anywhere is quite attractive to many employers (e.g. they need someone at the Dallas office, but the geeks all want to live in Austin).

Their desire to stay put does not override all other concerns. If you were rich, you could hire a full time nurse, but you aren't, and your whole family needs to accept that.

I saw this when my grandmother couldn't take care of herself anymore. My parents dragged her to their house kicking and screaming and moved her into my old room. There just wasn't enough money in the family for anything else.

Forgoing building a life of your own so they can stay in their comfort zone is asking too much of you.

Re: elderly parents.

My elderly parents (my dad turned 80 this weekend!) moved to one of those semi-suburban retirement villages a few years ago and it changed their lives. They went from being depressed, lonely, TV-obsessed hermits to having a fantastic social life on par with college. The network of neighbors really helps in times of hardship as well, the community really looks out for each other. I feel pretty comfortable knowing that if something bad happened they'd be in good company.

If you want to live guilt-free I can't recommend it enough. If its out of their income bracket, a great goal would be working off your debt and saving up to help them move somewhere where you can feel comfortable spending some time apart..

Fuck the guilt. Be "the one who abandoned them". Get the hell out of there. You don't owe them squat.

It would be one thing if they appreciated your efforts and you enjoyed their company. It's not so bad to care for someone if they give you a little back, if they understand what you're giving up for them, if they show you some gratitude, even just a smile and a quiet "thanks" when you help them across the room or whatever. But if they're "constantly and consistently negative about every situation" -- understand that every time they're like that, they're making a choice to be that way. It may be a habitual choice for them at this point, maybe it doesn't even occur to them anymore to choose anything different, but it's still a choice that they're making and they're responsible for. And if the consequence of that choice is that you don't get any reward, not even the faintest warm feeling, from helping them, then I think you shouldn't feel bad about leaving.

And they have no friends?? This speaks volumes about what kind of people they are. Once again this is their choice -- you didn't make them that way!

How to extract yourself? Tell them that you're not cut out to be a caretaker, and you need to live in a different place with a different kind of economy. They won't understand, or even if they do they won't admit it, it sounds like, but never mind that. It's a good enough reason and they'll have to accept it.

It also sounds like you've done a lot of the needed planning already, so your continued personal presence is not necessarily so important. If you move somewhere where you can find the kind of work you are cut out for, then maybe you can pay for someone to spend a few hours a day with them.

Our lives are over in a blink of an eye. One day follows the next ... and then it's over. You should decide what you want your days to mean. What do you want to experience? What do you want to do with this world you've been given? How are you going to make it happen?

It's easy to let the current sweep you along. You can tell yourself you are noble for taking care of the parents who took care of you. Except one day is the last day. The story "of you" will have been finished. Do you want a chapter titled "and he took care of his parents"? Nobody but you knows the answer. You are the author. Whether you want or not, every day, you write a page.

Some advice for the short term, assuming your parents will be ok, get away for a week or so, go stay somewhere with a friend, sleep on their couch/spare room or something. Have a few beers, watch some movies and just try to relax for 2-3 days. Then while still there, start making some plans (see advice from other commenters) about what to do next.

The getting away from it all for a week or should help clear your head a bit and make it easier to create a plan to execute. Try to clear the depression cloud a bit, let someone look after you since you've been looking after your parents. I swear it'll be easier if you're in a slightly better headspace.

This. Excellent advice.

I'm rather appalled by the smug "this is easy to fix" or "the problem is all in your head" attitudes exhibited by some posters here. This Shit Is Hard.

Much sympathy for what genuinely sounds like a very unpleasant situation, mattman, and please don't listen to the people saying you're bad and wrong.

Okay, there's a lot of things going on here, but most of them are (gradually) improvable. But it would be difficult to improve until you own responsibility for all of it.

Your post has a lot of "XYZ bad thing is happening because of ZYX external thing." Well, you don't have much control over ZYX external thing.

So, the first recommendation I have for you is to stop making that link. Instead of "XYZ bad thing is happening because of..." stop yourself there and instead say, "XYZ bad thing is happening. What would I like to have happen instead? What actions can I take to get there?"

This won't happen instantly, but try to get thinking like that. It'll be a constant battle of sorts to shift your thinking there. Stop pegging your problems to the environment and start thinking about what you'd actually like instead and what action you can take. This goes from disempowering to empowering.

Second recommendation - work on improving fundamental areas in your life. Pick one or two little things in a week, and try to make them a bit better. Spend a little more time in nature, a little more time exercising, a little more time working on a creative project, a little less time aimlessly surfing the net or watching TV, a little more time sending emails and trying to correspond with people you respect (btw, I'm in fucking Outer Mongolia, you want somewhere with no "scene"? Try here. But it's okay because I correspond with a couple dozen interesting people. How'd I get to doing that? Slowly, by dropping a line to interesting people I respect, and encouraging others to drop me a line.)

Anyways, there's lots of things going on in your life. I've been in a similar place at one time. In total, it can be overwhelming. But if you trend upwards in a fundamental area each week, pretty quickly your life starts looking a lot better.

Again -

1. Stop attributing problems to external things. Just say, "XYZ isn't what I want. What do I want? What action can I take that might get me closer to it?"

2. Improve fundamental stuff a little bit each week. Don't beat yourself up if you don't make massive progress, because massive progress is rare. It's also unnecessary. Just trend upwards - eat a little better, a little more time in nature, a little more time corresponding with people you like, a little more time creating things, a little less time on distraction whatever. If you make these regular incremental improvements, your life improves dramatically within not too long.

You're not alone here, many people have been where you're at and have gotten out of it. Lots of people are rooting for you. Good luck and godspeed. Take responsibility for everything and trend upwards gradually and you'll have a pretty good life pretty fast.

Along the same lines, mental health professionals usually draw a hard line between thoughts & feelings. Specifically, thought X cause feeling Y. Part of solving feeling Y is to correct thought X (which could be a "twisted thought" [1], I've been guilty of all of them), and it's amazing how you can change your feeling if you change your thought. I've been a solo entrepreneur and it's been very difficult to handle my own emotions, and these are hacks I've found to work.

I would also highly recommend seeing a counselor/therapist (there are sliding-scale prices), they are of tremendous value, but if you're broke like I am, I highly recommend The Feeling Good Handbook by David D. Burns [2]. I can't say enough good things about it; it has helped me tremendously when I've felt stuck and helpless.

If you're very hard on yourself, very goal-oriented and driven, and you're beating yourself up - well, I'm like that too and I've learned from reading that book that it is a vicious cycle that you need to break. There's a whole chapter to procrastination (I know you didn't say procrastination), but it applies to the general feeling of being "stuck" and therefore being really stuck, and it talks about the root causes that you can change. When I read the book, it was a dead on diagnosis for me and I thought the author wrote the book for me!

I sincerely wish you all the best.

[1] http://www.ptsd.org.uk/twisted_thinking.htm

[2] http://t.co/2FvSKFr

While I'm not currently practicing this, I'd recommend finding someone to be an "accountability buddy". One of the parts of my life where I grew the most in terms of self-confidence, concentration and productivity was a 6-month period where I had daily email checkins with what I termed my "accountability buddy".

The program is simple - every day, first thing in the morning you send an email to your accountability buddy. Include a list of the two or three most important things to accomplish today, and a short report on how your list went yesterday. (What kind of absurd mental acrobatics you went through to justify avoiding something, successes, failures, whatever...the stories can be pretty pitifully funny at times.)

Since it's a mutual thing, you'll probably also respond to your buddy's report from the day before. But the important part is looking at your situation and behavior in a way that lets you explain it to someone else.

I started this when I had a relatively high-burn lifestyle ($1k+ monthly rent, etc...), maxed credit cards, 10k of student loans, essentially no work experience and had been laid off my first real job after only 6 months.

Making daily promises to my accountability buddy allowed me to get over the daily fear and embarrassment of my situation and just do the things I knew would move me forward. (In my case I started a freelance career that has cleared all my debt and have several ongoing clients with more work than I can really handle.)

A good friend of mine does something like this. One day she decided that if a fried said they were going to do something she would ask them "by when." If they didn't know she would ask them by when they would know.

She would then make a note of it and hold you accountable for what you said you were going to do and who you said you were going to be. All that she asked is that you do the same for her. It cut down on people saying they were going to do something just to look good or making promises that they knew weren't going to be kept. She became a very popular person to talk to, when people wanted to make changes in their life she was often the person to call since she would hold you accountable without judgement.

Edit: Fixed a typo.

What area are you in?

Have you considered looking at the HackerNewsers world map [0] to see if there are other HN users in your area? Some of the frustration due to the "inactivity" in your area could be offset simply by having a meal/drink/chat with another HN type once in a while.

[0] http://hackernewsers.com/pages/map.html

I'm in somewhat the same situation, but in Toronto, taking care of and living with my elderly folks (one with Alzheimer's), working a part-time job to pay the bills, and seeing my boyfriend 2 nights a week if I'm lucky. As a writer, I find it hard to be tapped into the local startup community.

One thing to consider: Enjoy the time you have remaining with your parents, even if you quarrel with them. You've got a unique opportunity to rekindle a relationship with them, at some level. When they're gone, you'll appreciate it.

Set boundaries if they are always in your grill - a lock on your door, times they can and can't expect to see you, etc. Guilt can be hard to escape but you are an adult now and they've done their job of raising you. It's up to you to decide what you want and how you want to live.

I'm blown away and truly humbled by the compassion, advice, encouragement, and offers of help in all of your responses and emails. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I feel validated, empowered, and now more hopeful that things could eventually work themselves out. It looks like there is a way to fix all this and I've now gotten some better perspective on where I could start.

I'll use this thread as an action plan to get things going. I've already read some responses a few times and will make sure to review all comments and sincerely think through every suggestion. Please give me a few days to process everything as well as to follow up either via comments or email.

Thanks again, to everyone, for being there for me. You guys are unbelievably awesome.

> People here are content with 9-5 jobs and staying home at night

I think you should not feel bad for being frustrated by this. It's a perfectly reasonable choice, but if you value a more active, diverse lifestyle, I think this is a value you should hold on to.

I've experienced that it's very hard to make friends in new places, and it's taken me a lot of time and patience, but I've managed it every place I've moved. Good luck on this!

To echo some of the other commenters, I think you might also ask yourself what responsibilities you really have to your family. I won't presume to guess the details of your situation, but I suspect that you may be able to scale back a lot - but not entirely - while still doing nearly as much good.

You might be in a better position than most of us. You are poised to start all over again. You may have no idea how empowering that is.

I see only one problem in your situation actually, but maybe it's just me oversimplifying everything. You need to believe in yourself once again. Snap out of it, wake up. You're still alive, and that should count for something.

Maybe you can make use of the app I made to create resumes, if you still don't have one: http://www.cvstash.com. Other than that, all I can say is that maybe you need to dive into an altogether different industry, one you haven't explored before. There are always problems to solve.

Hi, I've been where you are, and I know it sucks.

Why don't you get a 9-5 job for now? You can always quit once you want to move on. It'd be a new thing, it'd help clear your mind. There's no shame in it. And it'd put money on the table =)

Have you considered immigration? Say move to a different country where there is plenty of startup capital, and your skill set might be in need and greatly appreciated. Try look into places like China, India and so on.

Yes, a lot actually. South America is on my radar for this very reason. My thinking is that if employers, clients, or other startups aren't seeing obvious/immediate value in my collective experiences, that companies/projects in other parts of the world might. I'll look around HN to see what others have done in this area.

I really don't have much personal experience to draw on here, but just to add my two cents, you might try to think about why you initially became an entrepreneur, techie, developer. Something that always makes me feel better no matter what my work-load or responsibilities is spending some time on a project just for the sake of my own interest. These are NOT money-makers, just rough ideas for anything that truly interests me from a tech standpoint. Like maxdemarzi said, do something to regain confidence, interest in your work, etc. You can't fix all these problems at once.

I'd like to think that I've thought about this, but almost every interest of mine involves something that in no way shape or form includes being around for my family. But you are right in the fact that I need to focus more on what I find enjoyment in / take pride in.

I feel sorry for you and wish a great success. Good people are those who help others not to get in trouble. Since you have learnt experience and gain some valuable things which others might not have. I would suggest you to either start a blog or a PODCAST series in which you sh are your experience. It might not be beneficial in terms of finance but atleast it would help you to divert your attention. When you do something for others,it would definitely help you as well. WHo knows what opportunity you get in future. SO think it over and start it ASAP

I've been in a very similar situation.

Lesson learned: humility. Go take a 9 to 5 somewhere. Anywhere. Doing work you would look down on. Start all the way at the bottom. Save money. Pay off your debt. Deal w/ that first. Chances are if you're smart, a side effect will be that whereever you're working you'll quickly rise to the top and new opportunities will start presenting themselves.

But deal w/ the debt first, you'd be amazed at how your outlook on life will change when you're no longer under water. Solve that and everything else will start coming into place.

Before I try to offer some advice...

This is the dark side of the startup dream that is endlessly pushed on all the VC blogs and tech sites and boards like this that I frequent.

Anyway, with that said, I think you really just need to stabilize your situation. You (obviously) need to find a job, any job, whether it is temping, stacking books in the local library, retail, anything. Diminish your credentials if need be. You sound like an intelligent guy, you can probably think of ways to make yourself at least temporarily appealing to jobs that are objectively below you.

I am very sympathetic with your parent situation. You are lucky at least that they are old enough to be drawing SS and Medicare. It sounds like you are in a low-cost area and so that should be enough to at least support them at a minimum American subsistence level. With consistent checks coming in and government-supported health care, it would be hard for them to royally screw themselves permanently in the financial sense. And unless they are wealthy, it does not sound like they really need estate planning, and you can try to help with day to day care but you cannot let it consume you.

I echo everything everyone has said about community and inspiration. Sites like News.YC provide all the inspiration I need - I have actually found the hackers and founders type meetups I have been to to be quite underwhelming compared to what I read and the people I interact with online.

I hope for the best for you.

Sounds like you should get one of those 9-5 jobs and let your parents figure their own stuff out. If they ask for help, go for it but it's their choice. They are adults after all.

Great direct advice and very true, but tough to stick to in all cases. Thanks.

I feel for your situation and realize that you cannot change it overnight.

In the short term, put in your profile what you can do: - What skills do you have? (coding, marketing, etc.) - What was your project(s) that failed.

It doesn't matter that your startup failed. What did you do in that startup? Thats all that matters.

You would be surprised how many of us are willing to take a chance. Yes, we might not be able to pay you the best money out there but it will help you get back into things.

You have two separate and unrelated issues here.

1. Your last venture failed.

2. You have to take care of your elderly parents, apparently in an obscure small town hundreds of miles from any tech or cultural center.

The first issue, business failure, is normal and not a problem at all. Entrepreneurs deal with failure. Either get on the horse again, or switch to a corporate job with a steady paycheck. Either choice is a valid one.

The second issue, elderly caretaking, if you don't want to do this, given that it sounds like they object to you being there, don't do it then. Let the rest of the family deal with them.

If despite this you are still committed to staying with the parents, then the obvious solution is to either do remote design work, or to start your own company. You are not going to be taking care of the parents 24 hours a day, this leaves much free time to create a product while enjoying low living expenses. Congratulations, you're a start up with almost no overhead.

If you prefer to take the corporate job to resolve issue #1, and still want to take care of the parents, then they will have to move to the city where your new high paying corporate job will be. If they are going to be dependent on you to take care of them, then you get to make the calls.

"no tech scene, no innovators, no night life, no forward-thinking, no excitement."

Sounds to me like a blank canvas and opportunity to be a big fish in a small pond. Your town not being cool enough isn't a good excuse. It's like blaming a chair for making you sit in it.

If you are a true entrepreneur and have the ambition, you'll hustle up make things happen. In the meantime, lower your standards and take the next job that's offered to you.

I'm a failed startup entrepreneur fighting my way back out of depression, spiritless-ness, and massive debt.

My entire family suffers from social anxiety disorder

There is no ecosystem to help drive and create new things. Local city and business "leaders" I talk to about doing something politely nod their head in agreement but it never leads to anything.

You know, you are probably very much like us, a functional manic depressive. We are dreamers - bugs who want to change the world. And it drives us crazy. When we work for someone we disparage it and call it a J.O.B.. Yet, getting paid is the key marker of value being created. Another word about manic depressives, that is how we get into debt because we are too optimistic when we are manic.

I had a failed startup once, and you know what? Working for people isn't at all bad. I don't watch TV, and I spend a lot of time tinkering around with ideas. Hopefully one of them works, but if it doesn't, my family will still be fed and clothed.

I'm not going to offer any concrete actions, but to reassure you that you are doing the right thing in putting your parents ahead of yourself. Just as the blind can't drive, the cripple can't walk, if you are crippled by massive debt, you can't take business risks.

Instead, I'd like you to reframe what your definition of success is. Success is not a million dollar house, or a changed world.

Success is when you have become a role model and become a source of inspiration. Tackle your problems with dignity and that is success in its own.

One thing I might suggest is meditation. It is free, and you will hopefully learn to better pierce through your current anxiety, and see that it is a your parent's social anxiety manifested in another form.

Hello. Maybe this is the last thing you want from others, but I'll say it - I'm sorry for you. Although I, like many others, have been in situations somewhat similar, I have to admit that it doesn't match the depth level. Therefore what I'll say doesn't have an empirical-derived proven value. It is just a outside perspective that I hope you'll find useful.

1. Priorities in order. I see you worry about a lot of things, like unemployment, loosing professional momentum, your parents, your depths, and about a lot of other multiple aspects of your life. As a former entrepreneur, I'm sure that you can find a way to deal with each one accordingly. I would consider first of all my sanity, especially the mental stability, no mater what.

2. Discipline. Manage your own life and improve the chances of getting needed and desired targets. Peace and free time would be incentives to new ideas, which are essential for getting back on your feet.

3. Research. Study everything that looks promising (for new opportunities).

Like many responders here, I have been through something similar, but not nearly so tough as what you are going through. I hope you can come through stronger and that this thread helps.

One thing you didn't mention is how much time you have to devote to healing yourself. In my case, the only time I had for myself was after everyone else went to bed. If you are still monitoring, give us an idea of how much time you have per day/week to spend on your needs.

The most dangerous part of your situation is the depression. It will drain the life out of you. I wasn't effective on my work project until I dealt with it. There are many good ideas here on how to climb back out; here are a few more.

* Get some professional help

I know finances are tight but a very close friend of mine saw a psychiatrist and it helped immensely. Make sure they are goal oriented in that they are working towards putting themselves out of a job, not setting up a continual revenue stream.

* Apply your skills towards non-profit activities

Work makes me feel better about myself and helping others is a wonderful feeling. Sites like: http://catchafire.org/ can help you find opportunities.

* Mentor at a local school

You have failed and probably think about it a lot; I know I do. (This is probably not the healthiest of activities...) But this means that you can also help others avoid the problems that you have faced.

On a different note, I think the many responses here have shown just how prevalent this kind of situation is and how wonderful it is to have a support structure. I feel better just seeing the support for you!

You might want to consider recording your journey, either for posterity or, if you feel comfortable publishing, to help others in similar situations.

Don't let debt depress you unless you are driving around in a luxury car and have a 60 inch TV at home. Loans are a risk the lender gladly takes in return for nice profit - sometimes they lose, it's part of their game and they get to write it off.

Assuming you are in the USA we don't have debtors prisons (for now) and creditors aren't allowed to harass you. Change your phone number and don't give out the new one to anyone. It won't stop the letters from hell, which will arrive every week for decades to come (seriously) but you can stop opening those.

Don't bother to declare bankruptcy either unless you have assets they could take away from you.

They only debt you cannot escape is student loans because by congressional law they are for life, can't be removed by bankruptcy, and can be taken from tax returns and future benefits like SS.

Become a cash customer, it's a better way of living efficiently anyway.

I've been in a similar situation. Twice. Although I live with the guilt of my career potential, I don't really regret the sacrifices I made to tend to my family over the last couple of years as some interesting opportunities have come up as a result of it that wouldn't have been available had I made my career a priority. Not to mention valuable life experience and a different perspective on life after going through all that crap. Yeah, this path may be a lot bumpier than others and full of potholes, but at least one will have the opportunity to admire/observe the landscape while traveling through it. Who knows, perhaps you'll come up with a new startup idea as a result of it...C'est la vie.

Loads of great insight from people. One thing I'd add is that you may be better off moving away and pursuing what makes you happy and fulfilled. Additionally, there's a much better chance you'll get back on your feet financially doing this (you don't say how much debt is 'massive', so it's hard to judge that).

Two things you can't do. You can't help someone who doesn't want your help. And you can't help someone from a position of weakness. It's much easier to help people financially from a position of financial strength and stability, and easier to help someone emotionally from a position of emotional strength. Whatever your intentions are, you can't be effective until you're squared away with yourself first.

Good luck.

(presuming you are in the US) : If you are under crushing debt, go see a bankruptcy attorney. There are some kinds of debt that can help (like credit cards, judgments, contracts) but some it can't (like student loans, child support and maintenance). As an attorney I have seen plenty of people in bad situations that were just made unbearable by a debt load, and have seen them thrive once that monkey was off their backs. It's no fun, but it's a rational solution to that part of your problems. You can't start your next chapter if you're paralyzed by debt. If you are in the kind of straits you say you are, your credit rating is crap anyway, so what's to lose? Get a fresh start.

One step at a time. I suggest getting a job at Starbucks. http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/starbucks-to-the-rescue/...

Also I suggest listening to NYC WBAI Radio show "The Positive Mind by Armand DeMille" for anyone reading this. - Archive available here: http://www.thepositivemind.com/tpm/radio_frame.php - Podcast Here: http://itunes.apple.com/es/podcast/positive-mind-wbai-fm-new...

Entrepreneurial spirit? Needing to care for someone? Start your own senior care facility. Not wanting to wipe asses for the rest of your life? Create a patient database service and sell it to your competitors.

Just an idea, no clue if it has any value: I know that at least a fair bunch of US startups have teams that are highly geographically distributed, incl all over the US or even across contintents. Bandcamp, Banksimple and Stackexchange come to mind, probably many more.

Can't you apply with companies like that and work from home? It gets you into contact with the kind of cool guys that you can't find in your area (which might help you stand the local folk better too), gets you some income, and gives you some additional purpose because you're working on a cool product.

It seems you're rationally aware of the choices, the actions and the causes. As for the problems, from what I understand about entrepreneurship so far, its always going to be challenging and that's exactly why it chooses people like you who are inherently blind to comforts in 9-5 jobs and who hate routine. If not positive, you're gonna stay rational and thus focused. Don't worry much. You're just feeling alone and with a planet full of 7 billion people, it's not gonna stay that way for long :)

Matt, my recommendation would be to address your parents' situation before trying to handle everything going on in your personal life. If they approaching a condition where they will be unable to take care of themselves there are ways to respectfully bring this to their attention. You will get your career back on track. But you may not get your parents back on track if they injure themselves due to lack of assistance as one of my grandparents did.

Sending a free copy of Startups Open Sourced to your e-mail now, I have some interviews in mind that might help give you some motivational boost.

Mattman are there any past colleagues or friends you can reach out to, to get some temporary work. It could be as simple as writing a user manual or reviewing code for a small amount of money. You would be surprised at how often people are willing to help you if you ask. Once you get into the rhythm of work, it will get somewhat easier to structure life. Wishing you all the best!

I'd suggest

    Do farming in your back yard. You'll be self sufficient.
    Become a truck driver. Talk to your parents.
    Become a VAR e.g aliexpress.com amazon.com ebay.com geeks.com
    Become a trader e.g. http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/printthread.php?threadid=221668
    Forget a job in services sector. Too much of irrational competition.

I'll second the Learned Helplessness - your strategy currently seems to revolve around changing your parents, changing your immediate family and changing your town in order to stablize your life. Unfortunately, though other people can change, they can rarely (if ever) be changed by others. You need to stop focusing on the townspeople, the parents and the family, and start focusing on the thing you can change - your circumstance-strategy and your goals.

Here are a few things to consider, and some hard questions:

#5 - Why are you drowning in guilt, what have you done to feel guilty about? Your business failing? Your inability to support others who are not supporting themselves? Is your guilt misplaced, should you really be feeling responsibility?

I ask because guilt has a downward affect, responsibility upward - if you feel guilty that you can't support your family, you continue to sink into depression as you continue to fail. If you feel responsible for supporting your family, you find yourself needing to do just that and rising to goals that will fulfill that responsibility.

In regards to #2, I would consider this a cop-out. If there are no leaders, then you lead. If there are no innovators, then you innovate. If people want 9-5 jobs, then hire them, don't co-found with them. I realize that being in an "active" area can help in networking and support, but it also comes with disadvantages - competition for those same resources, false prophets and snake-oil salesmen, superstition-based strategy "Only 21 year olds can innovate, you need a 21 year old!", and it's own built in (false) positive-feedback loop. In my experience, "safe" or "inactive" areas are also usually somewhat economically depressed or limited - they rely on a factory or a set of services (hospitals, trucking depots) to supply most of the jobs. This can be a golden opportunity for an entrepreneur: there are probably lots of people there that need jobs or are working dead-end or low-wage jobs that would love a new business to open up in their neighborhood.

#4 Time to break the chain. If your whole family suffers from social-anxiety, it's time to ease them in to some new relationships. People need friends, and families need anchors. You can't do something creative or risky when you're floating anchorless. Your family needs to join the community, even if they do it awkwardly or slowly. My suggestion is this: choose an activity, sport, hobby or interest that at least 3 of your family share. I'm talking things like hiking, climbing, reading books, video games, sailing, motorboating, motorcyling, bicycling ... whatever it is that a few of you like to do. Find a local club that's related and join it. If there isn't one, start it. In fact, that may help you get your business chops back - running a small community club. Either way, you need to get your family "out there" and slowly the relationships will start to build. Once they have a few friends, they'll feel anchored to their community, their lives won't feel so out of balance, and taking risks will not seem so dangerous.

#3 I've never been faced with this situation so I'm not sure I can respond well. I'm tempted to say that if they don't want your help or won't admit they need it, perhaps you should let them make their own choices and back off.

Finally #1 - have you considered bankruptcy? If you're being smashed by crushing debt, the contracts you signed with those lenders hold escape clauses for you and them. Perhaps it is time to exercise yours?

Hang in there man, that fact that you reach out for help is a good sign.

Everyone here has better or same advice as me but this may help is ways you may not realize -- take vitamin B complex and fishoil. It'll help your depression and put in the right stuff chemically for your brain to stay positive.

I just want to say that I am incredibly touched by the volume, sincerity, and generosity of responses. This community is incredible - so proud to be a part of it.

Mattman, I can't offer much in terms of advice or connections that have already been posted, but I will pray for you and your situation.

There's been some great advice here, so I'll keep mine short: you are in a situation where you may discover new problems to solve and make money with (perhaps solutions that help aging parents)? I hope you can view this as a doorway to new insights.

And never, ever stop being an entrepreneur.

Matt, I feel for you, I absolutely do, but the painful truth is that your move home will cost you your energy.

If not the dependence of your parents on your, then the negativity will. The drain of the area you are going to will also pull it from you.

You will not do anything without energy.

You want to do know how to avoid this and the painful, guilt-ridden answer is: You don't go back home, you move forward with your life.

You have to do it with a clear mind and a firm commitment. If you cannot move forward without feeling pangs of guilt pulling you backwards, then you aren't ready. If you can make a firm, confident decision that you:

1. Love your parents.

2. Realize you cannot change them or improve their lives FOR them.

3. Want a better life for yourself.

There is no more to discuss or mull over. It is time to hug and kiss them, pack up your bags and move to a city that will spark that fire inside you again and fill you full of hope and joy.

Your parents love you. They are probably adamant for you to NOT come home because they know, deep down, what it will cost you.

I think you know all this already, you sound smart and in-touch with your feelings. You were probably hoping for some alternative information where we suggested ways for you to help them and feel like a great son and get back on your feet and get married and have a family and not have to move back to the middle of no where and and and....

All of that takes energy and you aren't an endless well of it. You MUST pick what you direct it at and it can't be everything.

If it makes it any easier, you being home, feeding into the negative-loop-cycle your parents are in right now and becoming more depressed helps NO ONE. It doesn't help them and it doesn't help you.

You aren't a bad son for wanting happiness in your life and that happiness NOT being from taking care of your parents.

Hug and kiss them. Call them often. Send them cards. Help organize a stop-in assistant twice a week. But do all that from a location that fills your life full of possibility and happiness.

Don't bury yourself in guilt, that is a trap. Move forward. There are great things waiting for you.

EDIT: I just read a lot of fantastic feedback here, some of it the exact opposite of what I wrote, so take everything I said with a grain of salt and go with whatever feels the best to you. Whatever explanation made you feel lighter, free-er and happier when you read it and just "made sense", that is probably the one you should go with.

I am tempted to erase my comment as I feel you have so much good advice here I don't want to just add conflicting noise. Either way I'm rooting for you man, just stay in one piece and keep your head up!

relocate close but not too close to your parents, and get a desk job where you actually have 50% free time to do whatever you want, start or contribute to some open-source software, rebuild your life for a few years then get back in the game, if you ever want to!

http://www.whywork.org/

Send me a message at t at art-is-t.me with your contact info.

I'm not in the same position that you are, but let's take time and fix your problem somehow. I hope that we find a way.

Let's work on something stupid, do anything different.

You can trust me.

Listen to wisdom of Citizen Cope's "Lifeline"

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/citizencope/lifeline.html

Fix number 4 first.

All the rest of the things will follow naturally when you find someone to bounce ideas off, challenge you mentally and help you feel good about yourself.

Mental illnesses are communicable.

Think about establishing emotional boundaries with your parents, just as you would set up physical ones if they had a bacterial disease.

As long as you have an internet connection in the "middle of nowhere", you're not in the middle of nowhere. Get to work!

Go to church and pray!

The praying part might be good advice but I'm not sure he needs to go to church first.

I downvoted the parent comment, but maybe I shouldn't have. Church is a pretty great place to network; I'm pretty sure my old boss got 90% of our contracts via churchy connections.

I'm an agnostic, but the parent comment is not a bad idea; I've gotten a tech job via church connections before. (I attend church because I'm a professional singer; lots of us have church gigs.)

downvote?

while your at it, pray for some kids with cancer to be cured, thats worked real well for them - here's looking at you big man with a beard in the sky

Being originally from a background and area where this is rife, I can only offer the following:

1. Change your mindset - Positive things happen to positive people, as basically they envision the positive result they want and engineer (either consciously or subconsciously) towards it. Negative people think they will always fail, hence don't try, hence fail, and vicious self-reinforcing circle repeats. This is hard to to when depressed, hence why you need to to change lifestyle as per following as example.

2. Take any job - It's not about doing something you love or pays well, but getting out of the house and changing your environment. A fresh/different perspective, new scenery, fresh air, and interacting with other (different) people always helps. It can also help you find structure and (different) routine in your life.

3. Focus on one change at a time - Thinking about everything at once can be overwhelming. Try and make one change at a time. Do the easiest (most achievable) things first. Success at them will make you feel good and help as building block to next (harder) thing.

4. Don't worry about external opinions of nay sayers - You are not in competition with others, only yourself, so as hard as it may be, focus on your path at the pace you are happy with and ignore what others say. The key thing is you keep moving forward, positively, even if only one step each day. Once you stop standing, and start moving, you will inevitably make progress, and that progress will help you move more.

5. Build income - Inevitably money is the cornerstone to fixing many problems in life, and with an income that meets your base needs, you may then be afforded the opportunity to do things you want to do, not have to. This could be something like hiring a carer a few days/hours a week so you have time to do something you want e.g. build your skills/portfolio/resume for a future step of a new/better job.

6. Do not be emotionally black mailed or feel guilt for wanting to live your life - We all have our paths to walk in this life and sadly there are people that will put you down or try to stop you for no good reason (i.e. your path is not self-destructive such as drug abuse) and its to do with what they want rather than what is best for you. No matter how hard it is to say this, or resentment parents/family may feel, but they have lived their lives and made their choices. You must live yours and make yours, even if in the immediate term it upsets people. In due time, most people realise things were for the good and the initial negative reaction such family has is more about the change itself rather than why/what change is for. One way to smooth this is to give people notice so change is not unexpected i.e. tell them you are telling them, tell them, tell them you told them, do it.

WATCH or READ THE SECRET by Rhonda Byrne

No please don't - trashy pseudo-science at it's best :-( Some very enlightening reviews on Amazon if you want a second, third and fourth opinion (http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Rhonda-Byrne/product-reviews/15...)

I can sympathize to your frustration. I went through a bout of similar frustration albeit for what you may consider a much more positive situation. I finally came up with my idea for a startup around the same time I started a family and the recession hit.

After the birth of my 2nd child in 3 years, I was extremely frustrated because I really wanted to work on my project but my family responsibilities didn't give me enough time.

What I finally concluded was I didn't want to be frustrated and I had to prioritize. So I prioritized my family, stopped working on a startup and focused on my idea being a project. Since then I've put maybe 2-3 hours a week into my site, unscatter.com. It's coming along extremely slowly, but I've also been able to focus on more fun parts of the development that I wouldn't have prioritized in the past. Along way, I've come to conclusion that I really like programming, something I gave up on as doing professionally years ago when I went the sysadmin route.

More importantly, I've had a ton of fun with my family. My 3 year old girl beat me 2 times in a row in Candy Land tonight and now I just finished reading Hop On Pop for probably the hundredth before putting her to bed. Looking back, I've made the right choice. We're still stuck in a townhouse that we're upside down in and is smaller than we'd like. We're still on the east coast when my wife is chomping at the bit to move back the West Coast so she can get our girls more associated with her culture (she's Native American, her tribe is Haida Gwaii which is a Canadian west coast tribe). However, we're spending the time with our girls and it shows in their behavior and attitude we're doing the right thing. Forget a startup, I'm helping build the foundation for 2 lives and while money would help it's become obvious that my time really is the better investment.

So, how does this equate to your situation? Heck you posted this 7 hours ago so I don't even know if you'll ever read this. But here's my impression based on your post above.

You moved back with your family to help take care of your parents who are in their 70's. You'd move, but you'd feel guilty. Look, you've already made the same choice I did, you've decided to put your family first. Obviously you love your parents, are you'd already be gone. So, love them. Cherish all the time you can have with them because you will miss them when they're gone. Forget professional momentum, you can get back on that track later. Or, try to see how you can keep that momentum going now. You can do a startup anywhere, just maybe you need to scale it down a notch.

I saw below in the comments your a business guy. Awesome, start a business. Do your own coffee shop. Find something that interests you that you can build a business in within that area. If you have the skills, then you'll accomplish it. If you lack the skills but really have the drive, you'll learn the skills and accomplish it. Failures are learning experiences. First you just need to believe in yourself.

If they have lots of fears, they may be ashamed of needing help and imposing on others. Naturally they will fight the source of that shame by withdrawing from the help. If this is the case, a good strategy might be to maximize recreational contact and limit assistance to emergencies involving imminent death.

Keep smile on the face 24x7. It helps.

[Edit]

Emotions are controlling our bodies. But is works in opposite direction too. If you will keep smile on your face, you will send clear message to your body: "Everything is fine", so your head will start to produce ideas. You will notice huge difference after about two weeks.

BTW:

My situation is worser than your.

I feel for you as I am in my own similar situation. Though I guess I only have me to blame - I am my own worst enemy.

I worked on a start-up for almost four years. It received national attention in all the popular tech blogs, as well secured seed funding. Prior to starting up I didnt know how to code, but wanted to teach myself and I thought starting up would be a good way to learn.

Ultimately after the attention and money faded it was time for me to go get a job in my new field. To get my first web dev gig was easy, as my start-up accomplishments were interesting and helped get interview/land 1st gig. THough this 1st gig I was brought on a jr. developer making horrible money, but ended up working my butt off to go from trial period to full time with benefits/better pay. I liked this job because it kept me busy and I always had a full plate of work. Though a month after I was brought on full time my full plate of work shrank(my anxiety/OCD of worrying about keeping job kicked in) to a small plate. A lot of times I would send out office email asking for work(having to do this made me even worry more about me maintaining this job I liked). I would get a small amount of work but not enough to keep me truly busy, thus I ended up taking my time on tasks .. stretching them out. Ultimately, taking my time on tasks led me to being laid off. SO frustrating as I was cranking out stuff left and right in the beginning when I felt useful and needed. Well I was out of work for three months, but didnt really start looking until 2 1/2 months out of work. There again it was easy to get interview/job because my start-up accomplishments were interesting. Well first day at this new job I immediately had those same thoughts/worries/OCD stuff - thinking this job isnt going to last. You know what ....it only lasted six months as similar thing happened. GOt a ton of work first few months then work stalled and thus I slowed down which ultimately led me to being laid off there for being slow :( Also, my worry about keeping the job continued.

Overall any job I enjoy and work hard to obtain I havent been able to keep due to constant worry/OCD crap. I have had no trouble keeping crappy, boring customer service and other medial jobs, but ones that are career oriented Ive never been able to sustain. I always worry them away whether its these web dev jobs or my NYC marketing job I landed out of college. NYC was a place i lived only outside of college. ALl other jobs Ive had have been in a smaller city(hometown) on the east coast.

Its been over 3 months since my last web job and I have been on seven different interviews. This time Im able to get interviews still because of background but since Ive worked for two local agencies for a short period time .. landing a gig I havent been able to do. Some interviews have been horrible ... like one said I just wanted to meet you as your interesting, but Im not going to hire you. Some of the interviewers personally know people ive worked for in this some what small metropolitan area.

I dont want to go back to medial jobs, because what the hell would that teach my future children, as well i really enjoy working on the web and feel I have knack for it. I worked medial jobs for five years after leaving my failed marketing job out of college. Since these medial jobs are just that and not a career, then I do not have the same worries/anxiety/OCD I do with career jobs.

Overall here I am in my mid 30s, dependent on others and like you lost as what to do. Give up any hopes of a career and just work crappy jobs or continue to face rejection until someone else gives me another chance?

Develop internet marketing skills.

Entrepreneurs don't take risks — they manage them.

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