In the U.S., more immigrants with children are still in their first marriage
ifstudies.org
ifstudies.org
Your post, and the upvotes it's getting, are the second wave :)
HN commenters (or the stereotype thereof) who are married would actually be more likely to be in stable marriages, and thus able to weigh first-hand the relative likelihood of a stable/happy correlation.
I don't see anyone saying this. Instead the claim is: when divorce is a cultural taboo, people are more likely to stick in an unhappy or even abusive marriage. This claim seems pretty uncontroversial, but at any rate it is a positive claim (not normative) whose accuracy can be judged by empirical data.
I'm less sure of evidence that cultural taboos have the same effect. Here's some correlational work across countries on divorce norms and gender equality within marriage; this doesn't specifically address violence, though, and it doesn't control for other aspects of culture which probably covary with attitudes to divorce [4].
[1] Stevenson, B. and Wolfers, J., 2006. Bargaining in the shadow of the law: Divorce laws and family distress. The Quarterly Journal of Economics, 121(1), pp.267-288.
[2] Gruber, J., 2004. Is making divorce easier bad for children? The long-run implications of unilateral divorce. Journal of Labor Economics, 22(4), pp.799-833.
[3] Wolfers, J., 2006. Did unilateral divorce laws raise divorce rates? A reconciliation and new results. American Economic Review, 96(5), pp.1802-1820.
[4] Yodanis, C., 2005. Divorce culture and marital gender equality: A cross-national study. Gender & society, 19(5), pp.644-659.
Immigrants can come from anywhere, and different countries have different views on divorce. Some countries are much less strict than the US on this matter.
Huge cultural stigmas and structures that reinforce stability family structures is likely at play. Similar to how other stats show Religious folks have a lower rate of divorce. Partially because of the forces encouraging to not divorce, both positively with huge support networks to keep couples together, and negatively with implicit shame for those who break up. And also partially that many who divorce may also leave said faith (eg self-selection Religiosity). This second component of course doesn't apply to immigrants.
Plus, a "no divorce" policy can also create systems where spousal/domestic abuse can run rampant and no recourse to escape. So it's not always the best metric to optimize for.
Plus culture where freedom, independence and success are more valued than institute of marriage, interdependence and family life.
https://sourcewatch.org/index.php/Institute_for_Family_Studi...
Arguably the article title is slightly misleading, because "stable family" can mean many things and has strong emotional associations. So I've changed the title to representative language from the article body [2], which is more precise.
[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
[2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
Thank you for changing the submission title.
Is happiness the most important goal? Could one have other aims in life beyond the pursuit of happiness?
Story time. I'm 27, immigrant living in the U.S. for the past 12+ years. We moved here from Iran when I was in highschool and now I'm a PhD student in computer science. I have been in the school since we moved in here. I have a brother and a sister who are 12 and 15 years older than me. They were not able to move here because they were over 21 years old. I work 2 jobs (senior software engineer and teaching at university), own a house and support my family in Iran. Iranian currency has been devalued by x20 times at least since we moved in so economy is messed up over there. I wouldn't call it a stable life. It's more like a survival.
I'm not alone. I see international students (or couples) who work extremely hard to be able to get a job after graduation. Immigration is rewarding but not an easy path.
I haven't been able to go to back to Iran and visit my friends and family members but I am scared being detained and used for the purpose of "hostage diplomacy" by the Iranian government.
For many people marriage is a prerequisite to immigrate to the us or bring their family over, and people risk deportation if they divorce. So saying that immigrant families are more stable can be akin to saying that H1B workers are more loyal to their company.
Had that happen with my parents. We immigrated when I was a teen, and just 4 years later my parents divorced. To people on the outside it seemed completely out of nowhere. But growing up with them, it was painfully obvious (in retrospect) that they kept it all together not by trying to actually solve problems or work things out, but by holding it all together just on pure will. It could've been held forever if everything else was stable, but immigration process and the experience of adapting to a new country is anything but stable.
While it sounds bad, I don't think of it as a tragic experience, and I don't wish that it had never happened. I am not happy that it happened either, but it was bound to eventually happen one way or another. Either that or one (or both of them) would just settle with being unhappy and miserable until the last days, being constantly anxious that one day that bridge held by duct tape would collapse.
Marriage is a tool for survival in more parts of the world than where it isn't. People around the world have more miseries to care other than marriage.
Immigration itself is a filter for education, wit, and wealth, and, sometimes, even physical fittness, and health.
By the definition, if both husband, and wife pass that, that's a very rare, lucky marriage.
Russia has huge divorce rates, but Russian immigration much lower.
Russians marry late back in Russia, but in mid-twenties, and early twenties marriage is commong among people I met.
There were probably more women from Russia I knew in technical occupations in the West than all other women in engineering I knew alltogether.
Think of it, if you were a woman, and was from the start aiming at studying for long 6 years, having harsh early career, and enduring hardship of living as a recent immigrant, you wouldn't be getting a husband whom you need to pull.
That’s a big range.
Too big.
How do I know — from the stats given — if the disparity is simply a matter of age?
If the native average age is 45 while the immigrant average age is 35, the ‘result’ may simply be a matter of the natives having had more time to get divorced.
Something is screwy. I smell an agenda.
I would like to believe that the US and Europe can pick up whatever enables poor immigrant families to maintain stable families and viable reproductive structures – without buying into the more extreme aspects of some pro-natalist religious cultures.
I wouldn't say the best way to think about this is "these crazies are baby-making machines!" (Strawmanning your argument a little there.) There is some craziness in e.g. Quiverfull protestantism or Ultra-Orthodox Judaism, sure. Nevertheless, if culture X is set to survive into the future on current trends, and culture Y is not, then maybe culture X isn't completely stupid.
Basically, the hypothesis is that immigrant families themselves indeed move away from extremism. But their children born in the new country tend to overcorrect and try to "discover the roots" by swinging harder in the opposite (extremism) direction. One generation down from the one that became less extremist, basically.
I might be confusing some details given how long ago I had read it (it might be not the children of the immigrant family, but children of their children, for example), but that's the gist, and I saw it happening myself more than once.
Also see Idiocracy ( https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ )
Yes. I think more often than not extremists are a form "dumb" in that they're failing to see the errors in their thinking.
Edit: from my perspective a new strategy of far-right idiots is to propagate "positive immigrant narratives" which then prove wrong, just because they have been exaggerated from the start. Cheap psychological trick, still effective.
From my not-terribly-informed position, it looks more to me like this is part of the ongoing power struggle in the conservative movement. They recently had fairly poor election results, and this looks more to me like an attempt by this group to reverse their looming demographic challenges by at least trying to reach out to immigrant groups.
edit: I figured there had to be a term for this, but couldn't find one. 'Grass Man' is proposed here - http://www.michaeldello.com/straw-man-steel-man-grass-man/
We all should be measured by equal terms. Quite often there are articles painting immigrants as innately good, which - to me - is the same racism as painting immigrants as bad.
You seem to be confusing the words equal and same. Nothing in the article says immigrants aren't equal, it says their family dynamics are DIFFERENT. With statistics to back it up. It's no different than me saying that statistically: the average black family from alabama living in zip code 35033 consumes a different variety of food than the average hispanic family from south dakota living in zip code 57620.
Nothing about that says they aren't EQUAL, but they are absolutely DIFFERENT.
Calling that "racism" is a pretty blatant abuse of the term.
Otherwise would be unfair to the natives.
Says who ? These arbitrary rules were made up by someone, and are always subject to change.
Life’s not fair