Comment by mcdramamean | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mcdramamean | Hacker News Reader

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I think the issue is where you draw the line between inputs and outputs. If you are judging being in the advanced class the outcome; then you are right to look at biological and social/cultural differences. But when you look at the wealth prospects of these kids beyond 5th and 6th grade, you see that an African-American with a college education has as much wealth as a "white" high school dropout. There has to be more going on here than just biologies and bell-curves.

You also have to ask, statistically, who is educating the children? Mainly white women. Who does the worst in school? Black boys. The 2 groups with the least amount of things in common. Being able to effectively communicate with someone who doesn't come from your culture seems to be important when it comes to education, right? You click on the article and you are looking at a big picture of a white lady. I didn't have a single male teacher (besides for gym) until my sophomore year (I think AP Trigonometry?). At the very least, we need a 50/50 mix of male and female teachers.

Trust me, though. I don't agree with them getting rid of gifted programs. I don't think you can deal with racism with feel good platitudes and policies. The issue is the wealth gap; that's it. If African-Americans had similar wealth prospects as other groups besides latinos, most of these issues would disappear. African Americans built the country and weren't paid for any of it. We are talking about a group who has been financially shackled for hundreds of years via federal laws; and now we are living in a hyper-capitalistic society. How can you "move out" the hood without money? Heck, can blacks from the hood even get jobs picking fruit on farms like "illegal" workers. Fighting racism against blacks is about a debt that is owed and has never been paid; not about reliving Jim Crow or throwing racists in jail or making white people feel bad about themselves. You can't legislate a man's heart (1st amendment and all).

You are mostly making my point. My second point was classism, which was saying precisely what you are saying.

I was replying to someone who was arguing that everything was solely racism. That doesn't make sense to me. In fact, you argue that white women have not been doing a fair job teaching black men. But why are Asian americans excelling in school then? I don't think it's just racism to blame.

> Fighting racism against blacks is about a debt that is owed and has never been paid

And that's one bad argument. Reparations? Look, I'm from India and india was for a long time ruled by the british, and an even longer time ruled by muslim rulers who became the elite in india. So, if one tells me that britain needs to return the stolen 45 trillion (yup somebody estimated this bullshit number), or that muslims need to pay reparations, I'm pretty sure they would be called racist nationalists.

The law should only make sure that the people right now have equal opportunities for them, regardless of their history, skin color, ethnicity, and even wealth. Everything else is a illiberal idea that can only make things worse

India has a caste system. That's more comparable to African American and White American relations than the British rule of Indian. No one is asking Britain for anything. When your own country has put in you in a caste system; then all of a sudden end the caste system via the law; but don't do anything to fix the damage done; that's a problem.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/pages/article/indias-unto...

And the real issue is, you can't have a fair society if we have different castes of people. This is not about class; because if it were you would see different results in the wealths of even first generation immigrants to America compared to African Americans. People who have been in America for 200 years or more have as much wealth as people immigrate illegally. You forget, that people who are able to LEGALLY immigrate to America are people who have the money to do it. Even Africans (NOT African Americans) come to American with more money than African Americans. And Africans don't see themselves as "black". Another reason it's not about skin color, many people from India can be much darker than your average African American. We are talking about a specific group of people that has been caste on the bottom. This is about lineage.

People aren't living in the hoods because they statistically fall on the part of a bell curve that makes them dumber than most; which is why they can't succeed. You can't draw a direct line between IQ tests and how much money someone makes; so that point doesn't matter.

Also, I don't think it's about blaming white women or saying they are doing a "bad" job; especially when you see that many of the black boys are coming from single mother households. This starts to get into uncomfortable territory; but let's just say this isn't about putting the blame on "white people" or "women" or any particular group of people. This is about shame on the American Government for not finding the will to make this right. This is an investment into a large portion of untapped potential in America.

In terms of Asians being able to learn from white teachers; anecdotally many of the Asian Americans I grew up with were forced to learn English very well and were very respectable. Furthermore, they had parents that made sure they excelled in school. It wasn't about them being smarter; it was about them having a disciplined environment. I think cultural, specifically Chinese and Japanese cultures, fitting in is more favored. African American culture is based on attention and being unique. Not understanding the culture will make it hard to understand the person.

If you won't listen to me, listen to Christopher Hitchins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MNu2GNx-kQ

Finally, as a side note, I respect where you are from and all; but your country has literally very little rule of law. I'm not saying every single place, but we aren't going to use India as any measuring stick for democracy or restorative justice. Most people I know from India would concur. America has so many flaws, but I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. Having been to many countries, I love them all, but there is a reason the world is being "westernized"; for good or for bad. Cheers mate!

Your argument is all over the place, and it literally says that i said originally. That the differences are caused by a variety of reasons and not just racism.

For example, you started with saying that white women are racist for not teaching black men properly. But then changed it to say that it is cultural because black men are in single households. Said the same thing for asian americans, and pretend to say that i said that asian americans do better because they are genetically smarter. No i didn't mean that. The strictAsian american parent is a stereotype for a reason.

In the end, reparations are a bad and illiberal idea. I can probably never give any example of how it can go bad because you'll just dismiss it like you did.

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