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chrisseaton

> Accessing the file system is a constant hassle. Why so hard?

Apple prioritise the user at the expense of the developer. I think this is the right balance.

> I cannot install emacs on my Mac.

What's stopping you?

> Software that is free (as in GNU) is charged for in the App store.

I don't think this is in conflict with the spirit of the GNU project? Paying for software distribution is fine in the eyes of the GNU project and their licence. What's your problem with it?

> I am amazed that they care so little for those who are not quite the most important.

Apple think normal users are the most important, not developers. I think they're probably right.

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Last month I heard people saying that Apple thinks normal users are more important than graphic designers, and the month before that I heard people claiming that we shouldn't worry about Parallels support because "normal users" don't need it. At this point, I'm not even convinced there is a normal user.

If you prioritised developers over everyone else... who do you think the developers would be developing for?

It's ironic that Apple is also preaching "Everyone Can Code". In other words, everyone is or can be a power user.

Computers are becoming more and more essential to our lives, so deliberately dumbing them down is a disservice to everyone, who should be learning more not less about how computers work.

My dad was in sales. My first exposure to computers was when he bought an Apple II way back in the day. He used VisiCalc, naturally, the "killer app" for the Apple II. Was he a "power user" or a "normal person"? I'd say both!

Why does a coder have to be a 'power user'? Why can't the applications needed for coding be like any other normal application? You don't need to use esoteric stuff like emacs to be a coder.

> Why can't the applications needed for coding be like any other normal application? You don't need to use esoteric stuff like emacs to be a coder.

What's a "normal application"? How would you classify Xcode?

The complexity comes from the nature of the work. Nobody wants complexity for its own sake, but sometimes you need it, otherwise you can't accomplish anything. That's what the "power" part of the power user means. The power to accomplish your goals. I would contrast "power user" with "powerless user". ;-)

Xcode is a normal application. I think you can get it from the App Store? It comes with all the permissions it needs, simulators, ability to connect to your devices etc. You don't need emacs or something like that.

People get this funny idea that coding is a fundamentally low-level activity in conflict with user protection. It isn't - it can be high-level. A compiler is a pure function!

> I think you can get it from the App Store? It comes with all the permissions it needs, simulators, ability to connect to your devices etc. You don't need emacs or something like that.

Haha, that's only because Apple controls the App Store and the OS. The first time you launch Xcode, it wants your admin privileges so it can install a bunch of stuff outside the sandbox. I shouldn't even say sandbox, because I think Xcode is not actually sandboxed?

The whole computer is a sandbox, as far as I am concerned!

Why does a coder have to use Apple's tools? Why can't the applications needed for coding be like any other normal application? You don't need to use proprietary software like xCode to be a coder.

> Why does a coder have to use Apple's tools?

A coder doesn't have to do anything. They don't have to use a Mac, they don't have to use Apple's tools.

Apple provides an ecosystem. Coding tools can fit into that ecosystem, or they can whine about it, or they can leave it.

> Why can't the applications needed for coding be like any other normal application?

They are - install them like a word processor or a graphics editor or whatever.

> You don't need to use proprietary software like xCode to be a coder.

Who said you did? You also don't need to use emacs. And it's Xcode, not 'xCode'.

The point is - Apple make it easy to code - the provide XCode. Saying 'but why not emacs' is entirely missing the point on what they're trying to do.

Seems we're in agreement then. My point wasn't that you shouldn't develop on MacOS, but that it won't fit my needs or workflow. If Apple is disinterested in supporting that, then I'm not interested in supporting them.

Why would I pay a premium to use an operating system that can't run software my free OS can?

> Why would I pay a premium to use an operating system that can't run software my free OS can?

Because you don't need all that software if your goal is to 'code'. If your goal is to run some specific ancient text editor then yeah you may struggle. If you want to code and get something done it's the right platform.

And because the 'normal' things are 10x better - power management, touchpad, display driving, etc.

Do you want to spend your time creating, or time trying to make basic display scaling work on Linux? And why are they better? Because Apple integrates.

I'd like to propose an amendment to their catchphrase, maybe you all can offer some feedback?

"Everyone Can Code*

*Unless you have a 128gb SSD."

> At this point, I'm not even convinced there is a normal user.

i think the right word is maybe "consumers" instead of "users"... the thing is, ipad and ios are fine for those use cases (super locked down, "safe", limited capabilities, better revenue funnel etc), dumbing down macos to get those users just hurts the macs value proposition imo

> Apple prioritise the user at the expense of the developer. I think this is the right balance.

This assumes the user does no development, which is becoming less and less true over time. Computers are tools, people use them for stuff, and as the generations that didn't grow up with them die off, the ones that did are actually using them for more than just cat videos.

Also, nerfing the development experience means LESS development, which means less software and fewer bug fixes, which means a worse user experience. Gotta bootstrap starting from the boots.

> Apple prioritise the user at the expense of the developer. I think this is the right balance.

Not for the developer.

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