The 2-step trick to getting sweet-ass job referrals | Hacker News Reader

The 2-step trick to getting sweet-ass job referrals

humbledmba.com

117 pointsjaf12duke23 comments

I'm thinking in the back of my head: go figure out what you want, and then come back when I can actually be helpful. But what I tell her is this:
Sounds good. I'll let you know if I hear of anything.

And I won't. She won't pop into my head again.

I know you need to let people figure out their lives on their own, but if nobody is blunt with this person what chance does she have of moving past this? Shouldn't he just have said what he was thinking in the back of his head?

Yep. You're totally right. Contacting her now...

Totally agree. What she needs is guidance and he could have provided it to her with an honest opinion. Why not speak your mind?

I agree. He gave up way too easily with her and then places the blame on her.

If someone is seeking guidance from you, then guide them. If you can't, tell them why. If you can but aren't willing, then don't offer guidance.

I think the real answer here is to stand out. She's spectacular, but doesn't market herself well because she's good at everything and doesn't give him an easy hook.

There's something weird about this situation, though. Why is she asking him for job referrals when he obvious doesn't know anything personal about her? He doesn't know anything that she likes or dislikes... This might as well be their first meeting. (And might have been!) Sounds more like a recruiter than a friend.

But it's not a recruiter, because a recruiter would just submit her to anything that even slightly matches... Which for her is everything.

So while I think the advice is good and on-target, I think there's a pretty small window of usability.

>I think the real answer here is to stand out...

That's the opinion the author is rebutting here, and I agree with him. It's not enough to just stand out. You have to tell people how you stand out, and what you want. Narrow your scope, have high standards. Of all the things you've done in the past, pick the one or two things you liked the absolute best and pursue whatever it was that made those things awesome.

If you run a business, the same point (clarity of focus) is specifically applicable for receiving client referrals as well. I'm in a fairly broad industry (business coaching) and I have colleagues who, variously, work with businesses from solopreneurs to listed multi-nationals, across countless industries, 27 countries (and counting), and on projects that range from cashflow management to cultural purpose and intent. I can, and have, helped businesses with all of that myself.

But if I asked you for a referral and told you I was looking for a business of any size in any industry in any country that needed any guidance, how many would come to mind? Zero, or at least none that you felt were specific enough to refer to me. In fact, you probably wouldn't refer to me because it sounds like I'm saying I can do everything and that's probably (and actually) not true.

Alternatively: "I am looking for young, energetic business owners in London, turning over £2M-£20M per annum and looking to grow by learning from someone else's experience".

How many come to mind now? Probably still none, especially if you're not in London. But for the people who can make the right referral for me, the specific definition of my ideal client makes it easier to understand who I want an introduction to, and for them to make that introduction.

So whether for a job or your next client, I whole-heartedly agree that knowing what you ideally want and being able to articulate that will lead to results.

> Maybe if someone in the next 2 days randomly asks me if I know anyone in online marketing looking to make a jump.

My agency is looking for a talented strategist who has the flexibility to work on a number of different accounts across industries. Feel free to pass along my info (in profile).

Oh man, the first thing I thought was of the KXCD comic http://xkcd.com/37/

Referrals for sweet ass-jobs would be another type of blog post I think.

I watched the Steve Jobs 1997 Keynote chat this week and he again defined focus, which the subject in that post is lacking. Jobs (paraphrasing): "People think focusing means saying 'Yes.' No. Focus means saying 'No.'"

I love Jobs' advice to Nike's CEO: "Nike makes some of the best products in the world. Products that you lust after. But you also make a lot of crap. Just get rid of the crappy stuff and focus on the good stuff."

I call BS. If she's asking for help, help. Figure out a way to help. I'm the same way. I'm industry agnostic and have worked in both large and small companies. When I talk to recruiters or friends looking for intros the ones that sit and talk to me for more than 2 minutes get a good idea what the types of projects I'm looking for.

By limiting myself to a certain industry (finance for example) I might miss out on a completely perfect project in BioTech or something. If I say 'small' companies, something in a big company might be skipped over because of it.

OP should have asked more question to find out what 'type' of work she likes and gone from there instead of dismissing her as unfocused or hasn't figured out what she wants.

The point of this post isn't to judge how he handled the situation. His handling of the situation is a framing device for advice about how to ask for job referrals. Comments like this muddy the waters; his advice is obviously correct.

I agree. The point of this article is to refute the belief that a broad and open field of employment interests will increase your chances of finding a job. The reality is that a refined interest is better. Same goes for job postings; it's better to pick a company and hone in than it is to blanket resumes across a number of potential employers.

I will agree 100% regarding the job postings. 'Carpet bombing' companies rarely works. However the same doesn't always apply to dealing a recruiters and/or friends, your reality isn't everyones.

I'm only expressing that there is validity to not narrowing your interests, fields or industries and that dismissing someone out of hand because they are 'unfocused' is just as bad and unhelpful as dismissing someone because they don't have a degree. (an entirely different conversation)

There is value in being wide open to opportunities, but there is no value in being wishy-washy when asking for a referral.

You are imagining every conceivable conversation you could have with someone in a position to help you network for a job, and searching for something that breaks the pattern of "being specific and actionable". Lo and behold, there are cases where "specific and actionable" doesn't fit! For instance, if you're asking for advice about what kinds of roles fit your skills and interests, maybe you don't want to lock the conversation down to a specific title.

But that has nothing to do with asking for referrals.

You have to look at it from the other person's perspective. You have to help me help you. I need to be confident in my introductions. I know a lot of people so you need to help me narrow it down. And I would prefer to have a story.

I understand that however the point of my post was that I disagree with his process, and by extension the handling of the situation.

And no, his advice is not "obviously correct". It might work for some, but not all.

You totally missed the point of the article. By putting in a limitation, you are actually making it easier for other person (a good thing, no doubt). And to address your multi-talents, you use different limitations with different people.

My experience is exactly the same as the OP's: if you have little idea of what interests you, I am not eager to make introductions. It cannot be overstated: help people help you.

He is BS but his post is a fine reminder that when you're looking for a job, all those people smiling and nodding could be just like him. So in a sense his post is useful.

- And yes, it's quite precious to dismiss for being industry agnostic. Doesn't mean people don't do, so it's useful to at least know that.

This reminds me of the classic "What Color is Your Parachute?" which I cheerfully recommend to all. One-sentence summary: You have to have a particular goal in order to achieve it, and boldness and politeness are of the utmost importance along the way.

IMHO: don't see no problem or valuable advice in the post above. If you are really interested in helping person, you will explain the need for specifics. If not, you'll give an answer you gave.

Move on, nothing to see here.

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