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Comment by sedeki | Hacker News Reader

Exactly. These type of posts and comments ignore the fact that the actual transaction costs involved are higher, perhaps even much higher.

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Depositing and converting that amount to Binance will cost you 0.02% in fees, and same to convert on the other end (assuming there's buyers for such an amount). Of course, that's assuming you are going from/to cash rather than keeping them in crypto.

So $7600 (plus half a penny) in transaction fees on $38M. How much would a bank charge for wiring that amount?

you are mixing exchange rate premiums and transaction fees. imagine 30M or so EUR to USD first then transaction fee. most certainly more.

It depends. The fees for international wire transfers of those amounts are more complex. A random calculator I found suggested much, much more. Transferwise (cheapest I know) doesn't do that large transfers so you'll have to do it in ~100 transactions but the fees will be a lot larger, and this does not account for conversion fees which will be higher on their own. I found this for GBP, I assume it's similar.

>For payments in GBP the fee percentage for the first 100,000 is 0.35%, and for any amount above that it’s only 0.20%.

https://transferwise.com/gb/blog/send-large-sum-of-money-how

Up to $50 for a SWIFT transaction, without currency conversion.

There's likely to be a similar charge for making a transfer that large from a bank to a Bitcoin exchange anyway.

For those numbers you would be going through OTC, not buying on the open market, so the fees would likely be much lower.

This is not true. I'm sorry to post this twice but it's relevant to the discussion and also an answer to the OP.

Strike (https://global.strike.me) has built a product in which they use Bitcoin and the Lightning Network to send money (fiat currency like USD, EUR, etc.) around the world instantaneously and at virtually no cost. In some cases, they are able to offer exchange rates that are better than the inter-bank FX rate.

Explanation of how it works: https://jimmymow.medium.com/announcing-strike-global-2392b90...

If they are able to beat the interbank rate it means they are either buying the currency from someone below market value (in which case that person is being shafted) or taking on Forex risk themselves.

From the article:

> Strike maintains a live Forex rate and compares that to its own rate before every transaction. However, in our testing, a Strike international transfer has never been done at an unfavorable exchange rate when compared to Forex rates. Shockingly (or maybe not) it was even cheaper sometimes, exposing the flaws and lag in Forex rates and how they are used. Bitcoin, as the most liquid, globally transferable asset is already acting as the new world reserve currency with Strike.

A Forex trade is still taking place so there must be a counterparty. The USD don't just disappear and reappear as EUR. Someone is buying them on the other side. Getting a better rate implies the counterparty getting a worse rate.

I'm not sure I understand your criticism. The USD is used to buy BTC. The BTC is then sold for EUR. There's no Forex trade, not directly at least.

If x EUR is worth y USD, any discount results in someone losing money or taking on Forex risk through some derivative product. It doesn't matter which settlement layer is used.

Sadly still not available, do you know of any fully functional alternatives? Even if more expensive. Just surprised no one has done a Transferwise / traditional bank alternative yet considering it is one of the main publicized advantages of Bitcoin.

Strike is promising a lot (which is exciting!) but don't have a fully functional product yet.

I'm not aware of any alternative. Hopefully the global launch is not too far away.

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