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Comment by GekkePrutser | Hacker News Reader

If your mother in law can't even pick a username and password, how will she shop on Amazon, sign up with Google, book a flight? Most other mobile apps require you to sign up for an account too. And it bypasses the big problem of having to use your phone number (though you can already add it if you want for people to easily find you!)

In regards to the UX of Elements, I think it's not great either but it's not the only matrix client. That's the great thing about Matrix.

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He's got a point tbh. We are having family members who are just about manage to operate WhatsApp. To talk about them booking flights or shopping on Amazon is the equivalent of flying to Mars tomorrow. I reckon there are tens if not hundreds of millions of users who just about manage to answer a call or reply to a message. An average HN reader is probably 0.01% in terms of understanding how to use tech, but there's 99.99% of others that not quite there yet.

But how do they pay their taxes? Sign up for electricity or a mobile phone? Literally everything now requires an electronic account somewhere.

I now have 200+ accounts in my Password manager. Sure, I know I'm part of the 0.01%. But I can't imagine that there's anyone who does own a smartphone but still has less than 10 online accounts somewhere :) You just need them for too many basic necessities of life these days.

It shouldn't be so much of a barrier, and if it is, they probably need help even with setting up Signal or Whatsapp too. After all that requires a google play or apple account to install from the store too.

> But how do they pay their taxes?

Have the employer or pension provider deduct any applicable taxes, and the rest gets paid to the payee. If they do not live in a country where that happens automatically, they could still hire a local accountant.

> Sign up for electricity

Can be done by phone. But if they already have electricity in their home, then even that is not necessary.

> or a mobile phone?

This can still be done in store. In some countries, in-store is still the only way.

An online account may make some of these basic necessities cheaper and more convenient to access, but it is not the only option.

In my experience they ask their children and grandchildren, which has become significantly harder during the pandemic.

You don't need to know someone else's username when paying your taxes, signing up for electricity or using a mobile phone.

They don't do it themselves

You see, that's the problem that you find it difficult to even comprehend that some people are like this. I often find myself thinking I'm clueless about computers just to slap myself in the face seconds later, as a reminder that the absolute majority on this planet is nowhere near my level. Even in professional environments, people struggle to do so many things tech related but unless you are one of them, you just assume everyone knows it. In some fields it's the opposite, where people tend to be arrogant because they think they know stuff everyone else has no clue about. Every time I meet a doctor and I throw in some phrases rarely used outside medical field, they immediately ask if I'm a doctor, because suddenly I stand somewhat higher in their eyes.

Amazon doesn't have a username, it uses your email. Also, it doesn't give you a choice of "which amazon to sign up with", with 3 options.

This guy UXs.

Amazon would happily make multiple accounts with the same email. I've managed this twice. Unwinding it is somewhat complex.

"Oh yeah, you think your id is the mail. Well.. it isn't"

Though if you go to amazon.<wrong TLD>, the accounts are sometimes, depending on TLD, entirely separate from your normal amazon, even if the site is in the same language and looks basically the same.

> And it bypasses the big problem of having to use your phone number

To the vast majority of people this is a feature, not a problem. You sign up to WhatsApp by installing the app, that's pretty much it. Once it's installed, you can message anyone else you have a phone number who happens to have the app.

You also don't need a username for Amazon, Google or booking a flight, and you certainly don't need to try to find out what someone else's username is before you can message them on WhatsApp.

Exactly. This idea of tech barrier is massively overstated. We see people adapt to new tech all the time. The bigger issues are network effects, inertia/lazyness. Alternatives to the status quo are expected to be 10x better to justify mass exodus. Most people don't value privacy and freedom of speech that much.

Yeah there's an SDK and a Kit, so the SDK just gives you the basic building blocks in terms of data and the Kit gives you some of the screens. But at least on iOS it all looks a bit outdated so I'm only using the data layer.

BTW aren't you on tweakers as well?

> If your mother in law can't even pick a username and password, how will she shop on Amazon, sign up with Google, book a flight?

Here's a clue: Millions of people go about their lives without ever doing any of these things.

Yes. Also we should stop preferring X only because it is slightly more convenient or shiny, when there are alternatives which are better in more important ways.

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