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Comment by aketchum | Hacker News Reader

Leaving aside the moral question of the death penalty, the use of lethal injection seems insane to me. Why don't they just use nitrogen suffocation?

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Because there are existing court rulings declaring that lethal injection (with a particular cocktail of drugs) is not considered cruel and unusual punishment. If any other method were tried the accused would appeal on the grounds that the method was excessively cruel and the court process would take many years to complete.

Not that I agree with the practice but the people pro death are also pro retribution; to them the suffering is a feature :/

If you want to make that generalization, you should have some good sources to back it up. Do you have some stats saying that e.g. 99% of pro-death-penalty people want the accused to "suffer"?

Otherwise you're just throwing shade on people you disagree with, and that doesn't make you look good.

I would say this is one of those very rare examples where sufficient social activity suffices where a study is absent. I have not met a single human being who believes in execution but only humanely. I have met in excess of 50 people who simply conflate suffering and death and simplify the justification

You're relying on anecdotes, and the reliability of anecdotes isn't increased just because the subject matter is harder to get good information on.

> I have not met a single human being who believes in execution but only humanely. I have met in excess of 50 people who simply conflate suffering and death and simplify the justification

The very best this statement can say is that inside your bubble, this is how your memory represents the aggregate opinions you've encountered w.r.t. the death penalty.

Hey, nice to meet you. I believe there are crimes where a death penalty is warranted, but only humanely. AMA?

I also believe that there are crimes where a death penalty is warranted, but I also do not believe it should be executed because I do not believe any organized entity exists that could follow through on those penalties without being provably uncorrupt or infallible, and therefor it should not be considered an option in any civilized community.

Death is by definition suffering. By that, I mean the removal of free will and free thought is suffering. Prison removes free will, and death removes free thought.

I saw a documentary on the subject where that was acknowledged in this particular case, the suffering being an important factor.

I can't remember the documentary title, but the example was given of humane, even pleasurable, similar method to use instead of injection etc and it was dismissed angrily by pro campaigners for those honest and believable reasons.

That's not to say it's a majority opinion - so I agree with your objection to that generalisation, but it's definitely a reaction of some who are pro-death penalty.

Yeah, I'm not saying there aren't some people who think that way. I'm specifically taking issue with the generalization.

It seems fairly common these days to throw shade on people we disagree with, and it bothers me.

Just use anesthesia before the execution. If they can do surgery on you without even a passing sense of time, why not use it in this case?

Or carbon monoxide?

Or you know, literally, just a gun to the head. Out of all possible execution methods that were tried in the last century, the lethal injection seems to be one of the most horrific ones, possibly beaten by the electric chair.

Lethal injection designed and administered by a competent anesthesiologist who had a goal of making the process as painless and peaceful as possible seems like one of the better ways to die. It was a good idea in principle. But in practice, the nonsensical protocols designed by non-experts who don't care about the experience being pleasant and administered by incompetents hasn't gone well.

I suspect there's very few competent anesthesiologist who would be willing to do lethal injections. Even if they believe in the death penalty the risk to their careers seems not worth the non-existent reward.

Many doctors believe participating in executions is a violation of the Hippocratic Oath. I suspect that you're right.

> Even if they believe in the death penalty the risk to their careers seems not worth the non-existent reward.

I would presume they pay fairly handsomely, if there are few doctors willing to participate. Even if they payed them $10,000 to do it, there aren't enough executions a year for it to dent the budget. I wonder if that info is public.

The median anesthesiologist in the US earns a little under $400,000/yr. $10,000 is probably not enough to get one risk their career to carry out an execution.

Plenty of people have survived execution by gunshot - especially in wartime, when shooting prisoners is commonplace. See for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenceslao_Moguel and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Dumini

I think certain French revolutionaries found a more clear-cut solution a long time ago.

(Personally, I find the death sentence in any form barbaric, given how it nullifies any form of recourse in cases of wrongful conviction. It might however be an agreeable option to offer "voluntary execution" of some form: allow inmates convicted for life an alternative to using bedsheets in ways they weren't intended for. What a depressing topic, this.)

Now I’m curious; is there any account of a botched execution with a guillotine?

Yes: https://www.quora.com/Has-the-guillotine-ever-failed-since-1...

Cheers!

Why the electric chair? My father was accidentally electrocuted (and fortunately survived). He says that he felt nothing.

Accidental electrocutions are brief.

In the chair you are looking at a minimum of about 90 seconds of agony, which some taking in excess of 10 minutes.

My father lost consciousness immediately. So how is it agony?

Carbon monoxide is an awful way to die, as it triggers the hypercapnic alarm response.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercapnic_alarm_response

Inert gas asphyxiation would be a more "humane" way

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inert_gas_asphyxiation

You confuse CO with CO2, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning....

As someone who came very close to dying when a refrigerant relief valve on an industrial AC unit lifted in an enclosed space I can attest that it is a very peaceful and painless way to go.

Opioid overdose?

PR concerns, they're worried about being compared to the Nazis if they use gases for executions.

You've, umm, never heard of "the gas chamber" being used for executions in the U. S.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_chamber#United_States

I have, yes.

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