Comment by asdfasgasdgasdg | Hacker News Reader

Comment by asdfasgasdgasdg | Hacker News Reader

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asdfasgasdgasdg

> If you are not a scientist who has actually conducted one of these studies; if you are not intimately familiar with the methodologies and the math techniques used in the analysis; if you've only ever read the headline and maybe an abstract of a study- then please don't give advice to anyone on the topic. Please don't spread "information" that X is better than Y.

I'd say this advice doesn't really go far enough. I'm not a scientist but I have read a number of these studies and the biggest takeaway is that in many cases effect sizes are really low and it's hard to say whether these effects are real or the result of some hidden uncontrolled variable. This applies, at a minimum, to breastfeeding v. formula, and also to alcohol consumption during pregnancy. Back to sleep has real and significant effects. Screen time's harm is severely overhyped given the quality of the evidence we have available, but too much sugar is definitely bad for you.

My advice to new parents is basically that in most cases we don't have good evidence for one thing being much better than another. As far as food, baby should have formula or breast milk, but which one doesn't matter all that much. As far as sleeping, the sleep area should be firm and free of blankets, but as far as I'm concerned the evidence about where baby should sleep is minimal. I'm not aware of any strong evidence that sleep training has an effect other than teaching the baby to sleep.

One other commonality I see in a lot of this stuff is there is zero consideration for the costs that the various treatments impose on parents, and particularly on the mother. If breastfeeding gives junior a 0.5% increase in IQ, is that worth a year of suffering and untold hours spent feeding? That's a value judgment, for sure, but it seems to be left out of the equation entirely when people are giving advice to mothers.

I agree with everything you said. Especially with acknowledging that breastfeeding, in particular, has costs associated with it. Something that isn't discussed much is that formula/bottle feeding gives the opportunity for dad to bond with the baby over feeding as well as allowing to divide the sleep deprivation more equitably between both parents.

This was 100% my favorite thing about weaning. It gave me more time with the boys and a chance to demonstrate my commitment to the effort to their mother. And she started getting a lot more sleep, which improved general happiness in the house, and everything that goes along with that.

> is that worth a year of suffering and untold hours spent feeding

Suffering? Sure NOT breastfeeding is very inconvenient, not least at night. And few things are more intimate and loving than the act of breastfeeding. Robbing the child or mother of that is horrible.

Have you breastfed before? I'm married to someone who has, and suffering is an apt description of the experience, for at least a large fraction of the time. Moderate discomfort for the rest. The days when we started weening the kids are, by my wife's report, some of the best days she's ever had, because of how bad the days before were.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6400324/#:~:tex....

"Over 90% of women experience pain during breastfeeding initiation and lack strategies to self-manage breast and nipple pain."

My children, like most middle-class children in Sweden, are breastfed. So I guess I'm about as qualified as you to talk about it.

The only difference is that your position is in contravention of the evidence, whereas mine is backed by it. Breastfeeding pain is something the XXX vast majority XXX (ed: another commenter pointed out that only about 30% of women experience ongoing pain during breastfeeding -- so good for those who don't, but this is still a significant problem for many many women) of breastfeeding women experience. Some women are able to figure out strategies to mitigate it, but for some women the experience remains painful until weening.

What evidence would that be?

The intro to the study I cited above, as well as literally any other research you might care to look up on the subject. The phenomenon of breastfeeding pain is well documented. Feel free to cite a study showing breastfeeding pain is rare if you disagree.

From the study:

“ Although 90% of women report acute breast and nipple pain during the first week of breastfeeding initiation”

“ 30% of women who continue to breastfeed at 2 weeks after birth report persistent breast and nipple pain”

That’s certainly quite different from the suggestion that it’s a year of suffering in the normal case.

Breast feed if you want to, and quit when you want, without worrying about what other people think.

We took a few weeks with child one for mother’s nipples to handle the pain. The biggest issue was psychological for the first 2ish weeks, as we’d been told by some midwives that it will not hurt if you’re latching correctly. Visiting a breastfeeding specialist (for free) at 2ish weeks who told us sometimes the pain is unavoidable but normally goes in 4 to 8 weeks made a huge difference. Weaned completely at 9 months.

With child number 2, basically no pain. Weaned completely at 2 years. Mother is very glad she breastfed both, and was ready to stop when the children were.

Thats fair. I did not mean to misrepresent the numbers but plainly I did. A significant fraction of women have continuing pain, but not the majority.

My wife had a tremendous amount of pain while breastfeeding, to the point that it was harming her relationship with our children. Watching her suffer through that was emotionally painful for me as well. Having been through that experience and talked to other moms about it we know that she is not alone in her experience.

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