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Your mind still didn't change, organic meat is about the same problem, you are killing animals to praise your palate.

What you are saying is: I no longer do normal and plain slavery, I now do organic slavery. Instead of importing people from Africa, I get my slaves from small cities nearby, which are well fed. It's all bullshit and marketing. You aren't anywhere more evolved for eating organic meat. It's hilarious to read your comment, it's basically everything what is wrong in the world. People finding more expensive ways of doing the same trash behaviour "with conscience". I can't believe somebody can fall for this.

Just stop eating meat and start to think of the animals, if you care.

Just like slavery, it took white people centuries to stop being lazy and assholes to stop with it. The same it will be with meat, when people start looking at eating meat as a very nasty thing that our evolved society no longer needs and also becomes unsustainable(we are already very close), people are going to start quitting eating meat.

It is in fact objectively better from a standpoint of pure suffering to eat meat that was treated well before it was a corpse than to eat meat that was treated poorly. It is evident from your post that you consider this an unenlightened standpoint worthy of scorn (and perhaps it is, I don't care). That's nice for you, but there's really no call to talk to other human beings like this when all they've done wrong is not have the same opinions as you.

Maybe it is better, but what part of what he said is not true, do you think?

I don't buy the idea that certain forms of life are more alive and valuable than others. All life is the same. There are plenty of plants that absolutely do not want us to eat them either. All things need food to survive though. You must consume to continue living. There are other problems with eating meat than concerns about killing a living thing, concerns which are much larger. At the very least we do need to be sure to not cause undue suffering in the process, but there is no living without killing other living things.

I think you ignore the concept of pain and suffering. There clearly is a difference in pain and suffering between, say bacteria, plants, insects and vertebrates. Or even between vertebrates and Humans.

Studies have proved over the years that plants do suffer and there is no difference.

Are you saying plant suffering and human suffering are comparable? Or did I miss something about the argument?

If you consider that eating plants is unethical, that's great! So you should go vegan, too, as most of our plants go to feed meat animals — thus you can minimize undue plant suffering.

Do you think equating Africans with animals is the best way to promote veganism?

Where is your head to come up with this logic?

I never said such thing and btw, not that it matters, but my family has a history of being slaved, that's why I put this argument. It doesn't make it any prettier if you are enslaved with or without food, it's still slavery. The same is for eating meat, it doesn't matter if it's organic or not, it's still eating meat.

Do I have to draw for you?

>I would not eat a vegan burger, never bbq a vegan steak. But chili or spaghetti bolognese with vegan ground meat can be really delicious since flavors and texture are overpowered by other ingredients anyways. Same with lots of sandwich meats.

I agree with this. Of course there are some plant-based "substitutes" that are just not the same in terms of taste/texture. It's often easier to just treat them as their own thing -- it's not a replacement for a hamburger, it's just a black bean patty in a bun, and it can be pretty good!

That said, while I'm all in favour of more "substitutes" and lab-grown meat, etc., I think it's also helpful to branch out and try different cuisines that don't rely so heavily on meat. There are plenty of absolutely delicious Indian, Thai, Vietnamese, Japanese, Mexican dishes (just to name a few off the top of my head) that are completely vegan. They're not relying on "meat substitutes", they're just....using delicious ingredients that happen to not be made from animals. And those often end up tasting much better than trying to figure out some substitute for a big hunk of steak or whatever.

At any rate, I think ultimately, any attempt people make to cut down the amount of animal products in their diet is a good thing. You don't need to go 100% all beans all the time...but cutting down meat consumption can make a big difference in and of itself.

You should also consider which animal parts you buy. The most expensive parts are usually those that drive the quantity of animals slaughtered, whereas the rest is sold off at whatever price the markets offers.

Also, not carcasses from the same herd going to the slaughter house are the same quality. By paying for the highest quality, you may actually drive up numbers.

A carbon tax would help. We don't necessarily have to eliminate meat production, just make it expensive enough to reduce its use by a factor of 10 or so.