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Comment by yaix | Hacker News Reader

When you take a look around Singapore's neigbor countries and their living conditions, you must admit that the Sing' government did a pretty good job so far. And then there is the asian culture of not being to critical to the "superior". You even have that in democratic Japan and SKorea. Talking crap about the gov is more a Western life style (mine too, 'cause I m from Europe too, but have lived in Asia long enough to know that there are different ways of seing things).

And talking about free speech: Have a look at the Internet censorship laws in Australia!

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I think we really need to watch out when we label certain sorts of thing Western. I know it usually comes from an attempt to be culturally sensitive, but it's just not true and potentially harmful.

Gender equality is not rooted in Western culture. It sucked being a woman equally in Glasgow, Shanghai & Algiers. Gender equality was spread with difficulty and imperfectly over a decade in throughout liberal democracies and communist countries. It skipped the third world, but gender equality is no more part of Spanish culture then it is Qatari.

Same for "western" democracy, western medicine and a big chuck of western values.

It wasn't cool to criticize kings or dictators anywhere at some point.

Western culture does include the changes since the enlightenment era and forward, you realize? Culture isn't static, and gender equality has become a part of western culture -- at least in principle. Similarly, freedom of speech has slowly become a part of western culture, although it has a way to go as well.

This wasn't always the case, but that doesn't disqualify the current situation.

On gender equality, you speak in terms of black and white when in reality there are many shades of grey. For example, you say it "skipped the third world" but I think if you've ever been to the Philippines, which is usually classified as a third world country, you'd see that women have just as many rights and freedoms as in some Western countries. Filipino women can become doctors and engineers, and many have jobs in government.

That's true. I painted with a broad brush. There are even examples of gender equality in traditional cultures. Not all 1st or 2nd world countries as far along the way either. The 3rd world grouping here is pretty arbitrary to my point.

Sure. Its not genetic or anything. Critical views towards authority have developed in the West in the past 500 years, with the rise of protestantism (as in "you talk to God yourself and not through some father figure mediator") and later through Enlightenment (as in "use your brain, goddamit!"). It took us quite a while and quite a bit of luck, too, to get where we are today.

Most of those things did not happen elsewhere. Hence my comment above.

I'm not sure that if you go back to post reformation or post enlightenment Europe you'd be doing any better than countries where those movements did not take place. Racial oppression the US between its founding (Jefferson & Paine or not) and relatively recently was awful. Women's suffrage and social equality spread over the 19th century, 200 years after Kant.

Check out indian politics - for a real taste of chaotic democracy in action. Here folks get to talk crap about a whole bunch of governments - from city, state and national - and there's a whole bunch of 'em to talk crap about - unlike the two-party plutocracy of the US, as one point of contrast.

At the moment, the only part of the internet in Australia that is censored by law are some usenet groups.

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